2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[chasfh]

Eduardo Rodriguez would have to suddenly be born again hard as a very good pitcher at age 30 to opt out of a guaranteed $60MM. I don't see it happening. I think he's ours for good, for better or worse.

[RatkoVarda]

many assume the Giants are about to abandon their more cautious approach to FAs this winter when they offer Judge $300M

if they want to keep up with LA and SD, finding LaMonte Wades and Mike Yazes, though nice, is not enough

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Eduardo Rodriguez would have to suddenly be born again hard as a very good pitcher at age 30 to opt out of a guaranteed $60MM. I don't see it happening. I think he's ours for good, for better or worse.

IDK, I think ER could go either way. He had a pretty good track record, so to me it's not so much the 30 that would bother me, I don't think that is so old for a pitcher, it's whether he's ready to be a professional athlete again in '23, by which I mean able to bring his full focus to the task. Not implying that as any kind of moral judgment, but just as the reality that not many guys can compartmentalize enough to bring the psychological intensity needed to succeed as a pro athlete if their life gets too complex for them on the outside.

Of course if he has a good year in '23 and then does opt out, that's no long term help to us either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯    (well, unless we shocked the world  and made the playoffs!)

It's seem like that is the thing with rooting for this team in recent years, it seems like everything - or at least too many things - are always up in the air at the end of every season. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by gehringer_2

[KL2]

14 hours ago, mtutiger said:

And yet they're gonna outbid the Cubs or Yankees or whoever for Correa?

I don't understand your comment. You think the Cubs are gonna spend or the Yankees are gonna pass on Judge and go over the luxury tax when they haven't? Also couldn't have those teams bid on Correra last year and nobody did? 

You asked why is nobody considering the others. It's simple they are deep pocket teams that want to keep em. Why waste time going after them when there is about a 1 percent chance they change teams? Meanwhile, Correra has a potential to leave Minnesota and you at least have a chance at him. 

[KL2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Eduardo Rodriguez would have to suddenly be born again hard as a very good pitcher at age 30 to opt out of a guaranteed $60MM. I don't see it happening. I think he's ours for good, for better or worse.

I disagree. When we marginal pitchers get 8 to 10 like Pelfry, all Eduardo has to do is be semi OK this year and he can get the 48, not 60, he'd be forgoing by opting out. In a an offseason that looks like a lot of pitching movement he'd be a 31 year old coming over a decent year and a left. He'd could easily get a decent deal. 

If he opts in he gets the 48 but wouldn't be a free agent until 35. Big difference. 

[oblong]

11 minutes ago, KL2 said:

I disagree. When we marginal pitchers get 8 to 10 like Pelfry, all Eduardo has to do is be semi OK this year and he can get the 48, not 60, he'd be forgoing by opting out. In a an offseason that looks like a lot of pitching movement he'd be a 31 year old coming over a decent year and a left. He'd could easily get a decent deal. 

If he opts in he gets the 48 but wouldn't be a free agent until 35. Big difference. 

yeah but Al Avila isn't a GM anymore 🙂

 

 

[mtutiger]

34 minutes ago, KL2 said:

I don't understand your comment. You think the Cubs are gonna spend or the Yankees are gonna pass on Judge and go over the luxury tax when they haven't? Also couldn't have those teams bid on Correra last year and nobody did? 

You asked why is nobody considering the others. It's simple they are deep pocket teams that want to keep em. Why waste time going after them when there is about a 1 percent chance they change teams? Meanwhile, Correra has a potential to leave Minnesota and you at least have a chance at him. 

I dont really understand your comment in the sense that there will be competition for Correa. Which in turn will drive up his price (both in money and years), probably beyond anything this franchise would realistically spend going into 2023.

Also, outside of maybe Swanson, I just don't buy the premise that it's a forgone conclusion that the other big name shortstops are guaranteed to stay put.

[Tiger337]

I can definitely see Rodriguez being good enough next year where he opts out.  That could be good or bad depending on what else happens with the team.  

 

 

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Eduardo Rodriguez would have to suddenly be born again hard as a very good pitcher at age 30 to opt out of a guaranteed $60MM. I don't see it happening. I think he's ours for good, for better or worse.

With three years left I thought it was closer to 45MM ( 77/5) but you are probably correct unless, again for reasons unknown, he or his family just want a different location. 

[KL2]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I dont really understand your comment in the sense that there will be competition for Correa. Which in turn will drive up his price (both in money and years), probably beyond anything this franchise would realistically spend going into 2023.

Also, outside of maybe Swanson, I just don't buy the premise that it's a forgone conclusion that the other big name shortstops are guaranteed to stay put.

OK we're talking two langauges here. Cause you're making zero sense

1. You asked why people are talking about correa and not the other guys. 

2. I pointed out the other shortstops that are all free agents are big pocket teams and have all said they want their guys to stay. 

3. You asked yet the Tigers are going to outbid for Correra. I guess ingorning my point about the other shortstops you asked why nobody is talking about. Then didn't talk about them. 

4. I pointed out your confusing and all over the place. Again pointing out the big pockets, homefield adavantage and other things that is why people don't talk about Turner and Swanson. I also pointed out the Yankees have to resign judge and the cubs are rebuilding. Also noting that none of those teams bid big on Correra last year. 

5. You then talk about a bidding war for Correra. Again ignoring my point in 4 and then talk about only Swanson staying without any proof or reasoning again ignoring point 2. 

You want to get yourself straight about what you want to talk about and we'll be happy to discuss? Is it the other guys, is Corerra, is it why there will be a bidding war for Corerra is it why the Tigers will be able to outbid the dodgers both in money and wins to land Turner? 

 

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, KL2 said:

OK we're talking two langauges here. Cause you're making zero sense

1. You asked why people are talking about correa and not the other guys. 

2. I pointed out the other shortstops that are all free agents are big pocket teams and have all said they want their guys to stay. 

3. You asked yet the Tigers are going to outbid for Correra. I guess ingorning my point about the other shortstops you asked why nobody is talking about. Then didn't talk about them. 

4. I pointed out your confusing and all over the place. Again pointing out the big pockets, homefield adavantage and other things that is why people don't talk about Turner and Swanson. I also pointed out the Yankees have to resign judge and the cubs are rebuilding. Also noting that none of those teams bid big on Correra last year. 

5. You then talk about a bidding war for Correra. Again ignoring my point in 4 and then talk about only Swanson staying without any proof or reasoning again ignoring point 2. 

You want to get yourself straight about what you want to talk about and we'll be happy to discuss? Is it the other guys, is Corerra, is it why there will be a bidding war for Corerra is it why the Tigers will be able to outbid the dodgers both in money and wins to land Turner? 

 

I reject the premise of your second point, outside of possibly Swanson. As stated in the quoted opinion above.

And I also would suggest regardless of whether the Yanks or Cubs or whoever, the Tigers will not be the only team interested in a free agent short stop. Even if point #2 is reality, if Correa is the only big name left, that would only serve to drive up his price even further.

Edited October 17, 2022 by mtutiger

[KL2]

3 hours ago, oblong said:

yeah but Al Avila isn't a GM anymore 🙂

 

 

Hey its not just him. DeSclafrini got $12 million from the Giants and promptly went back to a 6 era.

 

 

Crap

[KL2]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I reject the premise of your second point.l, outside of possibly Swanson. As stated in the quoted opinion above.

OK so you asked a question and didn't care what people said cause you had your mind made up. 

that's fun. 

[mtutiger]

Just now, KL2 said:

OK so you asked a question and didn't care what people said cause you had your mind made up. 

I was interested in your response, I just don't agree with it. 

Happens all the time on a message board.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, KL2 said:

Hey its not just him. DeSclafrini got $12 million from the Giants and promptly went back to a 6 era.

 

 

Crap

I hope we don't get the guy who did that.

[Tenacious D]

I don't understand the argument.  A few of us have suggested that Correa might be the best and most realistic high profile SS signing for some obvious reasons--lack of draft pick attached to him, familiarity with Hinch and is the only one (so far) who has expressed an interest in changing teams.  Personally, I like all four of them.  I just don't see the other three leaving. Red Sox have expressed that Boegarts is their top priority, the Dodgers usually aren't outbid, and don't have a SS ready to replace Turner, and I think the Braves likely learned from the Freddie Freeman debacle, and won't do that again.

of course, we might not end up pursuing a free agent SS at all.  with zero track record with the Tigers, it's probably futile to guess what Harris will ultimately do.

 

[SoCalTiger]

I would be very surprised  Turner stays in LA. Sentiment here, talk radio/fans, is he is leaving ala Seger last year. The Red Sox have Story as back up to Bogarts and the Braves don't overpay for the "aging" star. See Freeman.Freddy

I say the over under of the top four shortstops staying at 2 and I will take the under. In fact I think they all change teams. 

 

[RandyMarsh]

The Braves also have blue chipper Vaughn Grissom that can slide into short so they may feel it would be better to allot the money that would otherwise be used on Swanson to another position. 

[RatkoVarda]

Red Sox have been doing lots of talking about how important Bogaerts is; this after offering him a laughable one year extension for $30M in Spring Training; Boras obviously wants to take him into the free agent open market; they have Story as a built in replacement; so maybe this:

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

I say the over under of the top four shortstops staying at 2 and I will take the under. In fact I think they all change teams. 

 

[gehringer_2]

21 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Red Sox have been doing lots of talking about how important Bogaerts is; this after offering him a laughable one year extension for $30M in Spring Training; Boras obviously wants to take him into the free agent open market; they have Story as a built in replacement; so maybe this:

 

the thing with Bogearts is that he's not that good a fielder. I know his DRS was positive this year but it's the first time in his career and call me skeptical he's become a better glove in anticipation of his 30th birthday. The other odd thing is he developed a nasty platoon split last season - 250 OPS pts, after being pretty good against RHP in the previous years. Would want to know what someone who was scouting him thought about that. Just bad luck or losing some ability to get around on RHP?

Edited October 17, 2022 by gehringer_2

[SoCalTiger]

35 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the thing with Bogearts is that he's not that good a fielder. I know his DRS was positive this year but it's the first time in his career and call me skeptical he's become a better glove in anticipation of his 30th birthday. The other odd thing is he developed a nasty platoon split last season - 250 OPS pts, after being pretty good against RHP in the previous years. Would want to know what someone who was scouting him thought about that. Just bad luck or losing some ability to get around on RHP?

Perfect fit for DD and the Phillies

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I would be very surprised  Turner stays in LA. Sentiment here, talk radio/fans, is he is leaving ala Seger last year. The Red Sox have Story as back up to Bogarts and the Braves don't overpay for the "aging" star. See Freeman.Freddy

I say the over under of the top four shortstops staying at 2 and I will take the under. In fact I think they all change teams. 

 

 

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

The Braves also have blue chipper Vaughn Grissom that can slide into short so they may feel it would be better to allot the money that would otherwise be used on Swanson to another position. 

 

53 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Red Sox have been doing lots of talking about how important Bogaerts is; this after offering him a laughable one year extension for $30M in Spring Training; Boras obviously wants to take him into the free agent open market; they have Story as a built in replacement; so maybe this:

 

Yep. I dont understand the assumption that they all end up resigning... not all the tea leaves point in that direction.

Even if they did, it seems very unlikely they land Correa if he's the only big name commodity on the SS market.

Edited October 17, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

...the Dodgers usually aren't outbid, and don't have a SS ready to replace Turner...

What if the Dodgers prefer Carlos Correa over Trea Turner? Heck, what if the Red Sox and Braves prefer Correa over their incumbents?

The reality is that none of these guys are necessarily married to these clubs, and vice versa. Would at least want to get past the World Series and into the offseason before assuming guys are completely off the board 

[Jim Cowan]

Everybody probably likes Correa better than the guy they already have, and nobody is going to give him Lindor's contract.

[sabretooth]

11 hours ago, chasfh said:

Eduardo Rodriguez would have to suddenly be born again hard as a very good pitcher at age 30 to opt out of a guaranteed $60MM. I don't see it happening. I think he's ours for good, for better or worse.

Based on his sudden drop in velocity and K's, and his age, and his recent history, and his general inability to stay on the field even before 2022, I'd say for worse.