gehringer_2 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Is Gleybar Torres available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 39 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: That's some serious fan-fic going on right there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share Posted December 30, 2022 If you weren’t completely sure whether the beat writers are there to sell tickets for the team, you can be sure now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, mtutiger said: That's some serious fan-fic going on right there.... Just to elaborate, its not hard to imagine Meadows being a deadline trade piece if he has a serious bounceback during 2023. But I dont see the incentives for the Tigers to trade him at what could be his lowest value. But it's pretty typical of the Yankees fanbase to assume that other teams would fall all over themselves to trade pieces to them on the cheap. Edited December 30, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 We can’t trade Meadows right now—if anything, we need to add another OF. Can’t go into this season hoping that Baddoo or Carpenter will perform enough to start. Heck, there are serious question marks with Riley Greene, though given his pedigree and potential, we should give him 500 AB’s no matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: We can’t trade Meadows right now—if anything, we need to add another OF. Can’t go into this season hoping that Baddoo or Carpenter will perform enough to start. Heck, there are serious question marks with Riley Greene, though given his pedigree and potential, we should give him 500 AB’s no matter. I do think the article does correctly ascertain the outfield as an area of relative strength for the Tigers on the position player side (especially if they can add a righty OF bat in free agency), but they conflate that with depth. There are wayyy too many question marks among the "depth" to be trading away someone like Austin Meadows, who if healthy is likely to be one if their best offensive performers. At least with respect to position players, the Tigers just don't have the kind of organizational depth to be handing away players of that caliber at their lowest value. Edited December 30, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Not sure I agree that outfield is an organizational strength, unless we’re putting Keith and Malloy there. Otherwise, I think it’s pretty underwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Just to elaborate, its not hard to imagine Meadows being a deadline trade piece if he has a serious bounceback during 2023. But I dont see the incentives for the Tigers to trade him at what could be his lowest value. I guess if you move him for a similar player at 3B, that’d be something to consider. Neither Baddoo nor Carpenter seem like everyday (or at least vs RHPs) from a defensive sense. But I guess this roster is such a mess it probably doesn’t make much difference. Or maybe this is where they would sign a Profar who has some kind of bat and maybe could handle RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Not sure I agree that outfield is an organizational strength, unless we’re putting Keith and Malloy there. Otherwise, I think it’s pretty underwhelming. Seems aggressive to to think either would be on the Opening Day roster. Even at that, I agree, I wouldn’t consider OF is an organizational strength, certainly not at the upper levels. I really wouldn’t consider any non pitching cross section of the upper levels to be a strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 2 hours ago, chasfh said: If you weren’t completely sure whether the beat writers are there to sell tickets for the team, you can be sure now. He would have fit right in during the 60s and 70s covering up Billy Martins shenanigans with young girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, casimir said: Seems aggressive to to think either would be on the Opening Day roster. Even at that, I agree, I wouldn’t consider OF is an organizational strength, certainly not at the upper levels. I really wouldn’t consider any non pitching cross section of the upper levels to be a strength. Outfield definitely isn't a strength at all... hence the word "relative". But at the upper levels, they have more options there than in the infield at the moment. Either way, just because there are more "options" doesn't mean they are any good or are more than AAAA players. Regarding Keith or JHM, also assuming neither guy sees the bigs at least early on this season. Particularly Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I know he is doing a lot of behind the scenes work, but unless Harris has 3-4 trades lined up, his plan seems to be: 1) crossing his fingers on regression to mean for all the underperforming guys; 2) leaving at-bats available for young guys; and 3) maybe picking up guys from the trash heap who might surprise with 1+ WAR. this is a strategy that Avila would have been ridiculed for, and rightly so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share Posted December 30, 2022 58 minutes ago, oblong said: He would have fit right in during the 60s and 70s covering up Billy Martins shenanigans with young girls. I don’t remember that about Billy Martin. But then again, that was probably a thing with a lot a lot of players, especially in the 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 yeah, I hate to pile on the guy, but really hope he isn't surrendering this season. Still plenty of time to make more moves, and I suspect he'll make some. We just don't have a track record with the guy, so it's hard to know what to expect. He does deserve the benefit of the doubt, and he shouldn't be forcing moves to just to appease a bunch of cranky dudes in a baseball forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackPine Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: I know he is doing a lot of behind the scenes work, but unless Harris has 3-4 trades lined up, his plan seems to be: 1) crossing his fingers on regression to mean for all the underperforming guys; 2) leaving at-bats available for young guys; and 3) maybe picking up guys from the trash heap who might surprise with 1+ WAR. this is a strategy that Avila would have been ridiculed for, and rightly so. What is he supposed to do? He's inherited an organization that is the genesis of that formula. Even if he intends to change it, how much can be done in a year? They have hardly any areas of strength to trade from aside from a few prospects. Maybe trade away Jobe for someone closer to mlb ready but otherwise I don't see the point in trading a way prospects to turn a 66 win team into a 72 win team. What kind of trades do you think they should make? They need to build talent and value from somewhere and since they aren't a current player for free agents they have to be scrappy on the waiver wire, draft, develop and make smart trades of players when they are at their peak value (I'm sure you've noticed there aren't too many players on the current roster that fall into that category). I'll withhold my frustration for a later date and let Harris have at least a year before I call for his head 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) all Harris (and us) can hope for the near term is that there is more talent in the org than was being properly exploited - i.e. that better coaching and development management can unlock some value that was latent and do it pretty quickly (Kreidler, Perez, Keith etc). At the major league level that means mostly getting Meadow, Rodriguez, Schoop, and Baez on track. But the paradox or contradiction at the ML level is that if these players are or should have been or turns out to be better than they played last season, what does mean about Hinch? Or was Hinch ready to make coaching or data system changes that Al wouldn't support? Edited December 30, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, JackPine said: What is he supposed to do? He's inherited an organization that is the genesis of that formula. Even if he intends to change it, how much can be done in a year? They have hardly any areas of strength to trade from aside from a few prospects. Maybe trade away Jobe for someone closer to mlb ready but otherwise I don't see the point in trading a way prospects to turn a 66 win team into a 72 win team. What kind of trades do you think they should make? They need to build talent and value from somewhere and since they aren't a current player for free agents they have to be scrappy on the waiver wire, draft, develop and make smart trades of players when they are at their peak value (I'm sure you've noticed there aren't too many players on the current roster that fall into that category). I'll withhold my frustration for a later date and let Harris have at least a year before I call for his head It's difficult because, on one hand, we all were dismayed and decried how Avila set this org back years after he was fired. Yet we expect big bold moves to put them into contention or even .500 in the upcoming year. It's a reality that we all seem to not want to face, but the best chance this team has to sniff .500 are the guys that are on the roster today. To be clear, I would be pretty disappointed if they went in with JHM only at 3B and didn't bring in anybody to compete, they need to do more to fill the 3B and OF holes, but in the grand scheme of things, they need better performances from those who are already on this team to reach that next level. This team ain't a Jean Segura or Jurickson Profar away from competing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I have a hard time judging a GM based off of a lack of moves because we don't know what he is or isn't trying to do behind the scenes. Perhaps he was trying to make moves but he couldn't find a deal that he thought was beneficial to the team in the short or long term, we just don't know. It's not wise to make moves just to make them. Also in regards to free agency who knows what he was told he had to work with financially or what players were even interested in coming here at this moment. Also not wise to overpay for marginal players or improvements which may be what some of the players we might have been interested in were seeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 51 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don’t remember that about Billy Martin. But then again, that was probably a thing with a lot a lot of players, especially in the 70s. Ike Blessit claims Billy called him at the Lindell AC that he needed him to a girl home. She was at the Leland Hotel. When Ike showed up he was told by her she was 15 and lived in Birmingham. Ike wasn’t keen on, as a black adult man, driving a white 15 year old home at 1 am to Birmingham so he called her a cab. billy was pissed and Ike blames him for torpedoing his MLB career to prevent even a modest pension. Man I wish the Lindell was still around. Loved that place. I went twice. Stood in the way of the Rosa Parks bus station so it wouldn’t have survived its location. But given that areas resurgence there’s a need for old school bars. I fear those that were around Joe Louis Arena. They lost that and downtown traffic during the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I think the frustration is that fans like to see transactions, just for the sake of making them. That's what makes the offseason more palatable. The guy's hands are tied--we really don't have many players with trade value. I would be onboard with moving some of our young pitchers, i.e., Jobe, Madden, etc..if we can get a position player who is major league ready and can contribute in the long term. Honestly, I wish we had made a few of those moves when Tork, Mize, etc... were in the minors and their trade value was sky high. It's hindsight now, but I don't think we should be shy about moving a prospect if it will help us in other areas. I agree that we need to give Harris some time. Like it or not, this is a 3 year plan now (at least). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, chasfh said: If you weren’t completely sure whether the beat writers are there to sell tickets for the team, you can be sure now. I actually reached out to Lynn Henning a few weeks ago out of curiosity for some ethics issues. A Purdue basketball beat writer is having brain surgery for a tumor next month. There was a gofundme out there, and Matt Painter donated $5K to the gofundme. To me, that seemed like a potential ethics issue, even though the reporter and Painter are above reproach IMO. Henning said his paper would probably reassign the reporter to another beat after recovery to avoid any conflicts of interest. The above crosses a bigger line, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: The guy's hands are tied--we really don't have many players with trade value. I would be onboard with moving some of our young pitchers, i.e., Jobe, Madden, etc..if we can get a position player who is major league ready and can contribute in the long term. I was honestly kinda surprised at how down some folks were about the Joe Jimenez trade, not so much here but elsewhere on social media. That's the exact kinda trade that our new PBO should be making, and for a player who has a decent chance to contribute in the long term. That was probably a foreshadowing of how negative people would be at this point if there wasn't a ton of action. Edited December 30, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said: I know he is doing a lot of behind the scenes work, but unless Harris has 3-4 trades lined up, his plan seems to be: 1) crossing his fingers on regression to mean for all the underperforming guys; 2) leaving at-bats available for young guys; and 3) maybe picking up guys from the trash heap who might surprise with 1+ WAR. this is a strategy that Avila would have been ridiculed for, and rightly so. For the time being, I have chosen to have faith that Harris has a plan and will be better than Avila. You are right though that Avila would be laughed at for what Harris has done so far this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share Posted December 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Honestly, I wish we had made a few of those moves when Tork, Mize, etc... were in the minors and their trade value was sky high. It's hindsight now, but I don't think we should be shy about moving a prospect if it will help us in other areas. Has any team ever traded a 1/1 pick for MLB-ready players while the 1/1 was still marinating? Honest question, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Dave Stewart traded Dansby Swanson before he made the majors. Of course Dave Stewart was comically unprepared to be a gm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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