2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[alex]

17 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

All of which can still happen this offseason. 

Again, I think there's an implication by some that Harris is just sitting back and not trying to do anything because there hasn't been a lot of buzz, and that is pretty unfair. But in any free agent market, players have a decent amount of leverage, even those at the lower end of the market.

This team won 66 games last year... teams that are unsuccessful generally don't have the same kind of leverage that teams who win more games do. Last years Tigers likely stand as a good example... they won 77 games and did manage to have a decent offseason on paper in the free agent market.

But I keep preaching patience because the offseason isn't over yet. Maybe a couple of free agent signings happen and/or a trade or two. Even now, we are a couple of these kinds of transactions away from all of the laments about the Tigers offseason being made obsolete.

Maybe nothing additional happens, and I'm fine with the criticism at that point. But a lot of epitaphs are being written about this offseason while it is still ongoing, and it's kinda puzzling 

I think sometimes simply because, as you have mentioned, it seems on the outside that nothing much is really being attempted. I to have fallen to this 'appearance' That does not mean some FAs and trades came close to actual fruition. I for one believe WContreras  was sought but that was during an early time (he would of checked off several needs: a type of cornerstone player, SHarris was familiar with him, C/OF, fourth place type hiter, etc.) and maybe the Tigs were not ready (actually totally surprised) at this years market for both the price and years it actually took (St Louis is a good organization and they looked at it and jumped on it).

Where we 'may' disagree a bit is that ABs should be given to youngsters perhaps (ex Clemens, Kriedler, etc) and not to marginal FAs. IMHO, the youngsters will still get ABs (depth, injuries, etc.) but when (not if) that weaker perspective of depth is challenged - where do they go from there? Lesser ready youngsters - that is a recipe for disaster.

Then we go back to 'trying to sign a quality or two FA next off season and you said it yourself...

This team won 66 games last year... teams that are unsuccessful generally don't have the same kind of leverage that teams who win more games do. Last years Tigers likely stand as a good example... they won 77 games and did manage to have a decent offseason on paper in the free agent market.

... this predicament again is much less attractive for FAs (a constant 60+ W team as opposed to a close to .500 team).  I am NOT saying top guys for 250 mil contracts (like Texas) need be done now per say. Just 2-3 mid level guys who can help win some games, take some pressure off, allow youngsters to develop and get the team 'closer' to respectability so the season for fans can be more enjoyable and a semblance of hope for competing can be there (esp in this division). This out of it by May 15th is not what most fans, players, etc. want. Also, if 'youngsters' are performing well (ex CKieth, PMeadows, WFlores, DDingler, etc. even a player like TNevin for that matter) - SHarris and A.J. will get them in the mix regardless of what 'modest' investments (if that) they put into 2-3 vet types (ex 5 - 10 mil ea if that).

Again, IMHO, too many reasons not to get 2-3 vets to help in MANY ways. I have no doubt SHarris will do this soon via FAs and/or trades. You said it yourself several times - they still have time.

Also, for the record, as I have mentioned many times here, drafting and developing is key and they will get more chances there as well with 3 of the top 46 picks this summer to go along with all the organization personnel they have changed in hopes to do this. 🙂 Go Tigs !

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, alex said:

I think sometimes simply because, as you have mentioned, it seems on the outside that nothing much is really being attempted. I to have fallen to this 'appearance' That does not mean some FAs and trades came close to actual fruition. I for one believe WContreras  was sought but that was during an early time (he would of checked off several needs: a type of cornerstone player, SHarris was familiar with him, C/OF, fourth place type hiter, etc.) and maybe the Tigs were not ready (actually totally surprised) at this years market for both the price and years it actually took (St Louis is a good organization and they looked at it and jumped on it).

Where we 'may' disagree a bit is that ABs should be given to youngsters perhaps (ex Clemens, Kriedler, etc) and not to marginal FAs. IMHO, the youngsters will still get ABs (depth, injuries, etc.) but when (not if) that weaker perspective of depth is challenged - where do they go from there? Lesser ready youngsters - that is a recipe for disaster.

Then we go back to 'trying to sign a quality or two FA next off season and you said it yourself...

This team won 66 games last year... teams that are unsuccessful generally don't have the same kind of leverage that teams who win more games do. Last years Tigers likely stand as a good example... they won 77 games and did manage to have a decent offseason on paper in the free agent market.

... this predicament again is much less attractive for FAs (a constant 60+ W team as opposed to a close to .500 team).  I am NOT saying top guys for 250 mil contracts (like Texas) need be done now per say. Just 2-3 mid level guys who can help win some games, take some pressure off, allow youngsters to develop and get the team 'closer' to respectability so the season for fans can be more enjoyable and a semblance of hope for competing can be there (esp in this division). This out of it by May 15th is not what most fans, players, etc. want. Also, if 'youngsters' are performing well (ex CKieth, PMeadows, WFlores, DDingler, etc. even a player like TNevin for that matter) - SHarris and A.J. will get them in the mix regardless of what 'modest' investments (if that) they put into 2-3 vet types (ex 5 - 10 mil ea if that).

Again, IMHO, too many reasons not to get 2-3 vets to help in MANY ways. I have no doubt SHarris will do this soon via FAs and/or trades. You said it yourself several times - they still have time.

Also, for the record, as I have mentioned many times here, drafting and developing is key and they will get more chances there as well with 3 of the top 46 picks this summer to go along with all the organization personnel they have changed in hopes to do this. 🙂 Go Tigs !

Two or three mid-level guys would be great, but in the current players' market, we're not getting even one mid-level guy. Just about all the mid-level position players—whom I would peg as being those guys who could expect to sign for two to four years—are already gone, and most of the guys who were crowd-sourced on Fangraphs to get two or more years got more years than expected.

There are a few reasons Detroit is at or near the bottom of everyone's list, but our recent record is probably the most visible. This team had been losing at a 98+ clip pretty consistently for four years, and even though we surprised with a 77-win season in 2021 and snagged three halfway decent free agents the following winter—all substantial overpays—we backslid into a 96-loss team anyway. Even removing the disadvantage that is the city of Detroit from the equation, no free agent would choose to throw in his lot with a team like that over other options, despite the firing of Al Avila and the hiring of Scott "Who?" Harris. I would not expect to sign any position-player free agents until after we start playing spring training games. I'm fairly confident we'll get somebody, but probably not a somebody that anybody here really wants on the team as of today. It's going to be somebody we're not talking about now, and who comes here because he needs a job. Think along the lines of Johan Comargo or Cesar Hernandez or Jonathan Davis or Jake Marisnick.

As for trading for a player at the level of a mid-level free agent, do we have the trade chips to do it? This is still a rebuilding team, so trading prospects for a two-win guy to get us from 70-something wins to 70-something-plus-two wins is out, I'm sure. I'm thinking the best we can hope for is a trade in which someone will accept Gregory Soto and Alex Lange and maybe a depth guy, and who knows, maybe even and money. I know some fans think we could get a good player by relieving another team of the onerous contract, although I'm not sure that's on the front office's radar. What bad contract do we want to hobble ourselves with, that will move this organization forward? Honest question, because no one is coming to mind.

I just think we're in a position in which the organization has been so thoroughly decimated that we are going to have to accept basically what we have on the team now, plus whoever's left that we can get here in March, and we will have to show and prove to the rest of baseball over the course of certainly this year, probably next year, and maybe even 2025, that we are serious about rising from the dregs of the game to become at least a middling contender on a regular basis. That's probably a reasonable goal to shoot for, given where we've been and where we are.

Edited January 6, 2023 by chasfh

[Edman85]

My theory is there is a deal in place for Escobar pending the Mets signing Correa.

[RatkoVarda]

Harris’s calculated risk comment should not have been made or not taken literally by me. I was so looking forward to some transactions that departed from Al’s paint by number boring approach. Instead we have gotten - so far - only no risk moves. I am optimistic they are trending in the correct direction especially behind the scenes.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Harris’s calculated risk comment should not have been made or not taken literally by me. I was so looking forward to some transactions that departed from Al’s paint by number boring approach. Instead we have gotten - so far - only no risk moves. I am optimistic they are trending in the correct direction especially behind the scenes.

What risky move would you like to have seen by now?

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

My theory is there is a deal in place for Escobar pending the Mets signing Correa.

Have you heard any scuttlebutt that suggests this might be in the offing?

[casimir]

4 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

My theory is there is a deal in place for Escobar pending the Mets signing Correa.

His fielding exploits will result in numerous E - EE references in the game threads.  Not quite along the lines of Elmn, but reasonable enough shorthand.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

I was so looking forward to some transactions that departed from Al’s paint by number boring approach. 

Apparently the waiver wire must not count, because that has been nothing like Al's approach.

[mtutiger]

Harris began this offseason with making a calculated risk on Jeimer Candelario - he let him walk when the safest and easiest thing to have done would have been to settle on resigning him for more than what he was worth on the open market.

The response by the fan base to the fact that 3B is still an open question shows that risk IMO

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

My theory is there is a deal in place for Escobar pending the Mets signing Correa.

Seems like we’re a match with them.  Could Baty be an option, too?  Escobar actually has an attractive contract, but do the Mets have a shitty one that we could easily give them relief?

[Tenacious D]

Nerd alert:

 

[chasfh]

36 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Apparently the waiver wire must not count, because that has been nothing like Al's approach.

Kind of to his point, it's not particularly risky, either. It's fairly tedious.

[Tenacious D]

Well, it looks like Harris’ dumpster diving could pay off.  Some of his pickups cleared waivers and are still in the org, but off the 40-man now.

 

[Tiger337]

So, the roster is at 38 now.  More exciting waiver selections on the horizon!

 

[Shinzaki]

The Tigers sign C Julio E. Rodriguez to a minor league deal. Is he any good?

[RatkoVarda]

9 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

The Tigers sign C Julio E. Rodriguez to a minor league deal. Is he any good?

no

[alex]

14 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Well, it looks like Harris’ dumpster diving could pay off.  Some of his pickups cleared waivers and are still in the org, but off the 40-man now.

 

This is IMHO actually quite good. Now they have these players as depth (I believe mtutiger and others here mentioned this philosophy before as well).

FWIW, I believe they could have pulled Feliciano and/or Ibanez back if they were claimed and then just kept them on the 40, all without anyone knowing really publicly they had been claimed.

Next they can add from here another waiver claim or two and/or add via FA or trade.

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Kind of to his point, it's not particularly risky, either. It's fairly tedious.

But to my point, it's also nothing like Al Avila's "paint by numbers" approach either

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

But to my point, it's also nothing like Al Avila's "paint by numbers" approach either

It's different and it's a positive thing, but it's kind of low risk low reward.  Better than nothing, I guess.  

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Well, it looks like Harris’ dumpster diving could pay off.  Some of his pickups cleared waivers and are still in the org, but off the 40-man now.

 

I'm shocked to learn that Andy Ibanez isn't actually the plan to be 3B in 2022.

[mtutiger]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

It's different and it's a positive thing, but it's kind of low risk low reward.  

So what? It's an example of how Harris isn't Al Avila or a "paint by numbers" approach, which was the point being made.

[alex]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

I'm shocked to learn that Andy Ibanez isn't actually the plan to be 3B in 2022.

There is still plenty of time  😉  😄

[Tiger337]

Why needs Andy Ibanez when you have Tyler Nevin?

[mtutiger]

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Why needs Andy Ibanez when you have Tyler Nevin?

What if, and hear me out here, there are transactions that can still take place between now and Spring Training?

[Tiger337]

13 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

What if, and hear me out here, there are transactions that can still take place between now and Spring Training?

I have already said I am giving Harris time and am not ready to criticize him.  I just think the volume of mostly useless players being churned is humorous.  What else are we going to talk about?