Motor City Sonics Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Yeah, I'm assuming that the request itself... Asking for a projected 2029 lineup... Was facetious. I might be wrong on that... but a facetious question deserves a facetious response... IMO. Its good to know that we only have to suffer through 6 more years, though. I'll be 64. Will you still feed me? Quote
buddha Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 48 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Its good to know that we only have to suffer through 6 more years, though. I'll be 64. Will you still feed me? we will feed you and need you. we'll scrimp and save... Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Yeah, I'm assuming that the request itself... Asking for a projected 2029 lineup... Was facetious. I might be wrong on that... but a facetious question deserves a facetious response... IMO. You assumed correctly! Quote
Jim Cowan Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, buddha said: we will feed you and need you. we'll scrimp and save... Vera, Chuck and Dave. Quote
Motor City Sonics Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 I see Aubrey Huff continues to make an ass of himself. Seems to be a little bitter that Brandon Belt got a job. Quote
chasfh Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 11 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: I see Aubrey Huff continues to make an ass of himself. Seems to be a little bitter that Brandon Belt got a job. I will never forgive him and Jarrod Washburn for costing us the playoffs in 2009. 3 Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 48 minutes ago, chasfh said: I will never forgive him and Jarrod Washburn for costing us the playoffs in 2009. Tweeters often used to remind him off his 2009 Tigers stat line. He never gave a response. Quote
RatkoVarda Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 deadline for arbitration salary numbers is today; Garcia and Cisnero only 2 left; if they settle before hearing, 2023 salary guaranteed current straight payroll at 118M, 17M less than last year Quote
Biff Mayhem Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 58 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Tweeters often used to remind him off his 2009 Tigers stat line. He never gave a response. I looked this up because I had forgotten. Err Mer Gard. 1 Quote
chasfh Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 I trust that they know what they’re doing with this guy although I don’t see it. 1 Quote
RatkoVarda Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 Cisnero will be 34; the next oldest guys in the bullpen are Alexander (29 in July) and Vest (28 in June); maybe they wanted an old guy mixed in with the youth? Quote
KL2 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: I trust that they know what they’re doing with this guy although I don’t see it. About three times the minimum for a guy with an under four era in four years for us seems reasonable. Quote
Tenacious D Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, chasfh said: I trust that they know what they’re doing with this guy although I don’t see it. warm body. Quote
chasfh Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: warm body. I guess, although if a warm body is all they wanted, they had other options on their 40 for a third of the price. Quote
chasfh Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, KL2 said: About three times the minimum for a guy with an under four era in four years for us seems reasonable. If ERA were the only thing that mattered, that would be fine. But there are warning signs: dropping strikeout rate; BB/9 pushing five across those four years, including over six last year; and that his FIP, xFIP and SIERA all substantially underperformed his ERA during those four years. Then, of course, there's his advancing age. But, like I say, they must know something about him I don't that justifies paying him 3x the minimum, so hopefully he delivers like a guy worth 3x the minimum. Quote
Jim Cowan Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 You guys are forgetting that the Tigers have a defined bullpen role, Big Fat Righthanded Reliever, that needs to be filled and Cisnero has all the tools. 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, chasfh said: If ERA were the only thing that mattered, that would be fine. But there are warning signs: dropping strikeout rate; BB/9 pushing five across those four years, including over six last year; and that his FIP, xFIP and SIERA all substantially underperformed his ERA during those four years. Then, of course, there's his advancing age. But, like I say, they must know something about him I don't that justifies paying him 3x the minimum, so hopefully he delivers like a guy worth 3x the minimum. I don't really care whether he's on the roster or not or how much they pay him, but given all the turnover and commitment to youth, it's a little surprising that they are going out of their way to keep him. Edited January 13, 2023 by Tiger337 1 Quote
KL2 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: If ERA were the only thing that mattered, that would be fine. But there are warning signs: dropping strikeout rate; BB/9 pushing five across those four years, including over six last year; and that his FIP, xFIP and SIERA all substantially underperformed his ERA during those four years. Then, of course, there's his advancing age. But, like I say, they must know something about him I don't that justifies paying him 3x the minimum, so hopefully he delivers like a guy worth 3x the minimum. A one year deal at pretty much nothing (that's why i said its just barely more than the minimum. 2 million for a player now a days is nothing). I guess i don't see what the downside is. If all those things you wrote hold true, you DFA and no fuss no muss. But if he continues to preform despite the outlier, then you have a guy who does 60 or so innings and minimal cost. Maybe even a trade chip. It's not like they gave him 10 or 5 million. It's two. And its a one year deal. Who was he blocking? What is keeping him taking away from? At 3x the league minimum he's about a third of 1 war player which seems about right for him. Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Given the current status and direction of the Tigers, I think there is no player on the 40-man roster I care less about than Jose Cisnero. Maybe Zach Short. I'd be happy if people stopped calling him Cisneros. Why do they do that? Edited January 13, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote
Jim Cowan Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Given the current status and direction of the Tigers, I think there is no player on the 40-man roster I care less about than Jose Cisnero. Maybe Zach Short. I'd be happy if people stopped calling him Cisneros. Why do they do that? Interesting concept: Most Irrelevant Player on the 40. I think I'll go with Zach Short, 1 Quote
casimir Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 Cisnero gave up more walks (19) than hits (15) last season. That’s kind of fun, right? In fact, walks are his thing. He walks about 12% of the hitters he faces (18% last season) against a league average of 8%. So he walks 50% more batters than league average. He strikes out 23% of hitters vs the MLB average of 21%. This is a curious retention given what Harris has said about owning the strike zone. It doesn’t really make much sense at all. And I suspect the .242 BABIP from last season was due to hitters being too stunned at strikes to get swings on the pitch. It’s just a theory. Probably wrong. Quote
casimir Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Given the current status and direction of the Tigers, I think there is no player on the 40-man roster I care less about than Jose Cisnero. Maybe Zach Short. I'd be happy if people stopped calling him Cisneros. Why do they do that? Cisnero is Spanish for “base on balls” and he gives up many much of those, so pluralize Cisnero to Cisneros? 1 Quote
casimir Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Interesting concept: Most Irrelevant Player on the 40. I think I'll go with Zach Short, It’s kind of like voting for the MVP and Cy Young. Short gets the MIP and Cisnerohs gets the pitching equivalent. MIPL for the Most Irrelevant PLayer and MIPI for Most Irrelevant PItcher? Quote
buddha Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 36 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Given the current status and direction of the Tigers, I think there is no player on the 40-man roster I care less about than Jose Cisnero. Maybe Zach Short. I'd be happy if people stopped calling him Cisneros. Why do they do that? because he's gotten so fat we thought there were two of him. 1 Quote
casimir Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 35 minutes ago, KL2 said: Who was he blocking? Have you seen the waiver acquisitions? There’s no reason to lock in Cisnero. Fetter has been pretty good at squeezing value out of relievers. If he cant get someone to avoid walks since he’s been the pitching coach (Soto as a prime example), then there’s really no reason to keep that pitcher. I suppose in defense of Soto, he didn’t pitch many innings last season. But that also hardly serves as an excuse to keep him. Quote
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