2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[chasfh]

32 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Robbie Grossman had 73 at bats in July with an OPS of .562, with young developmental players on the bench.  I was ripping my hair out.  I suppose that some people would find a way to blame Aviia for that.

Which young developmental players are you referring to that were on the bench in July?

[Biff Mayhem]

54 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

This randomly popped up in my feed and made me go hmm.

 

They missed one stat: Give up two grand slams in one inning. There is obviously only one and that is Chan Ho Park.

[Jim Cowan]

38 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Which young developmental players are you referring to that were on the bench in July?

Baddoo and Clemens, obviously.  

 

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Robbie Grossman had 73 at bats in July with an OPS of .562, with young developmental players on the bench.  I was ripping my hair out.  I suppose that some people would find a way to blame Aviia for that.

Speaking of Robbie, I think he’s still a free agent.  Kind of surprised since Atlanta had so famously fixed him.

[Stanley70]

All of this boils down to that the Tigers will not be successful until they start drafting, signing and developing young talent. The Tigers have lagged behind most other clubs for a very long time. And somehow have seemingly gotten worse in the last few years.

Their track record on the international front is among the worst in baseball in the last decade (and before that). And all of Avila's recent signings are stagnating currently as well. If it wasn't for top ten picks they would have the no blue chip prospects at all.

It is probably more development than talent identification, but they are bad at both. This is where Harris will make the biggest difference IMO. 

[Shinzaki]

Is it the mix or the mixers?  Did Al have an eye for talent...but not an eye for people who can develop it?

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Baddoo and Clemens, obviously.  

 

LOL! Good one!

No, seriously. Which young developmental players are you referring to?

[alex]

                

All IMHO, 

1) I do think Chris I. will make resources available when the time comes for player additions 'after' the team and organization is looked at and evaluated under the new leadership. I say that because as we remember after the second half of 2021 most all were on board with the direction of the team. Then things happened as an unusual amount of injuries took place and some players under performed. With said the Tigers did get: ERod, Javy, Chafin, Meadows, etc. To me that was a sure fire sign that Chris I. would do so if he (and the GM, Mgr, etc.) felt things were going in the right direction.

FWIW, I feel they did potentially reach out to several FAs this off season (WContreras, WMyers, JSegura,... ) but the prices were much higher than anticipated (esp early on) and Detroit is not exactly a FA hitters destination at this time (ex the park and state of the team).

Also, I do not believe SHarris would have come aboard if he felt this was the case in terms of extreme budget restraints (after a year or so of course). That kind of news, promising one thing and delivering another, would no doubt travel fast among the industry heads and that would make it very difficult to hire anyone worth their salt in the future.

2) For the roster, I feel A.J. had as much say on who to look at and potentially acquire as AA did (ex adding AMeadows at the end of the spring of '22). However, when it came time to select whom is to be on the roster itself during the season (proven vets excluded) then I feel that was more AA call. As mentioned here earlier, TThompson and KCarpenter may have been proof of that it would seem. Nobody is totally faultless and no one is to take all the blame in either case really. That is why sweeping changes were made throughout the organization.

3) To this end/now, I feel the club is heading in the right direction under SHarris and his new regime. It will take some time - but as I have said before things can change very fast. Just look at last years professional prognosis for both Detroit and Cleveland - a year ago at this time!

Drafting and developing is the utmost importance here. You are talking about elite talents here on the field. Yes, we say so and so cannot do x, or so and so has to go. Yet, the bottom line is to get to this level, you have to be 'elite'. Remember we all knew the kid who was a can't miss in HS or college. We have to remember very few even make it to the show let alone succeed. So much of this is mental and the ability to adjust. Hopefully, we are identifying those who can 'recognize' this aspect in our player development additions and have proceeded accordingly. Controlling the strike zone makes a lot of sense, esp for offensive players (not for every player but by far for most).

Again, for this long time fan, I feel we are on the right track. Some luck needs to take place as well. AA may have been a bit overly optimistic about some players in the org. for quite awhile. I cannot tell you how many times I remember him saying 'so and so can run like a deer or so & so has light tower power' - yet, he did ID some ex maybe the likes of ABaddoo (if he moves forward). With said I feel SHarris (and the new staff members, along with some returning ex RGarko) may be much more in tune to the identifying/developing talent process moving forward.

Yes, we do not want to hear patience again and again - but maybe there is more hope this time. Go Tigs 🙂

Edited January 26, 2023 by alex

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Between the firing of the old guard under which these injuries happened and the investments the club has been making in the infrastructure of the team from top to bottom, the team agrees with you and is not sitting back and hoping things normalize themselves by sheer change of luck.

and of course this ties into what should be everyone's worst fear, which we have touched on here before, which is the possibility that it is exactly Fetter's and Tigers' one reasonable point of success , which has been developing pitchers, (and maybe driveline tech in general) that may be one of the things helping to injure them and thus they will need to rework from scratch what has been a fairly successful developmental pitch shaping capability.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and of course this ties into what should be everyone's worst fear, which we have touched on here before, which is the possibility that it is exactly Fetter's and Tigers' one reasonable point of success , which has been developing pitchers, (and maybe driveline tech in general) that may be one of the things helping to injure them and thus they will need to rework from scratch what has been a fairly successful developmental pitch shaping capability.

Agree. I hypothesized that exact thing here myself and believe it’s the way that pitching has developed that leads to more injuries, making the improvement of medical systems to deal with that more crucial than ever. 

[roarintiger1]

19 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Hernandez stands a decent chance of making this team, one imagines... Solid low risk signing

Willie came out of retirement?

[Tiger337]

59 minutes ago, chasfh said:

LOL! Good one!

No, seriously. Which young developmental players are you referring to?

Baddoo is no joke. 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Tiger337

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, Stanley70 said:

It is probably more development than talent identification, but they are bad at both.

have they drafted talented guys who went onto success elsewhere? They are definitely bad at both, but I have no idea which is bigger problem

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Baddoo is no joke. 

 

Do you think Hinch played Grossman at the expense of Baddoo?

[chasfh]

37 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

have they drafted talented guys who went onto success elsewhere? They are definitely bad at both, but I have no idea which is bigger problem

There are some high profile examples like Adames and Suarez, but after looking briefly into that once, I don’t know whether we suffer from our draftees going on to success elsewhere at a greater rate than average.

[Edman85]

Bally Sports heading to bankruptcy, which, I think, could spell some revenue trouble for teams with rights fees from such RSNs, including the Tigers.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Bally Sports heading to bankruptcy, which, I think, could spell some revenue trouble for teams with rights fees from such RSNs, including the Tigers.

That’s going to be pretty rough on all franchises small and cheap. 

[Hongbit]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Bally Sports heading to bankruptcy, which, I think, could spell some revenue trouble for teams with rights fees from such RSNs, including the Tigers.

This has the potential to drastically impact the current financial models of all sports not named NFL.  

[oblong]

I bet the NHL the most.  It's Sinclair isn't it?  Bally's is just the "sponsor" so to speak.  Bally's pays Sinclair to brand it Bally's Sports.  Sinclair doesn't want you to know it's Sinclair.  that's all I will say about that.

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

have they drafted talented guys who went onto success elsewhere?

This is a logical argument, but the counter to that would be the theory that young players have age driven developmental 'windows' and if they don't develop certain skills before those windows close, most never will be able to. So under that theory a young ball player gets one bite at the development apple and he misses it, it's lost. Now I don't know proportionally how much that factor plays into things overall, but I am sure it is a real factor.

Edited January 26, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Shinzaki]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

This is a logical argument, but the counter to that would be the theory that young players have age driven developmental 'windows' and if they don't develop certain skills before those windows close, most never will be able to. So under that theory a young ball player gets one bite at the development apple and he misses it, it's lost. Now I don't know how proportionally how much that factor plays into things overall, but I am sure it is a real factor.

I imagine it's progressively harder to fix mechanical flaws and mental approaches as time wears on.  Then you're left with a 22 year-old or older who has to be retaught. Most teams probably want to focus on younger talent at that point

[gehringer_2]

58 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Bally Sports heading to bankruptcy, which, I think, could spell some revenue trouble for teams with rights fees from such RSNs, including the Tigers.

I sort of figured a couple of years ago when the talk of the Tigers/Wings/Ilitch starting their own network died down that meant they had done the due diligence on Sinclair to believe they were not going to collapse out from under them. I guess not, or it's just been too rapidly moving a target.

[romad1]

screw Sinclair.   Shouldn't the Saudis bail them out like they bail all these loony tunes extremists? 

[KL2]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I sort of figured a couple of years ago when the talk of the Tigers/Wings/Ilitch starting their own network died down that meant they had done the due diligence on Sinclair to believe they were not going to collapse out from under them. I guess not, or it's just been too rapidly moving a target.

I wouldn't read too much into it yet. They are heavily in debt and this might just be a chance to get out of some of the terrible debt for pennies. 

McClatchy recently did it after it bought Knight-Ridder and then the bottom fell out of newspapers like the next week. It just spun off into a new company and left a chunk of the debt behind. 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Do you think Hinch played Grossman at the expense of Baddoo?

Not really, but Baddoo is a better prospect than LOL.  Unlike Clemens, he is young and still has potential.