2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[mtutiger]

12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Based on the what's said in the article, your post reads more, to me anyway, like you're concerned about AJ being pressured into playing Miggy too much. I don't think we'll have to worry about that.

I'm not concerned about AJ, I'm concerned about Miggy being satisfied with a smaller role.

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'm not concerned about AJ, I'm concerned about Miggy being satisfied with a smaller role.

I see, OK. Miggy did have a smaller role at the end of last year, and based on the conversation in the article it sounds as though he, if not exactly comfortable with it, is at least coming to terms with the idea. So I think it’ll be all right. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by chasfh

[KL2]

4 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Everybody should always be worried about defense...as well as offense.  

 

4 hours ago, Edman85 said:

"Who cares about offensive defense?"

Any pitcher who gives up a fly ball.

In an ideal world sure. We ain't there. How about we try scoring runs before we worry about doing both. You can have the greatest d in the world, it doesn't matter if you keep losing 1-0

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I'm not concerned about AJ, I'm concerned about Miggy being satisfied with a smaller role.

I think he already had that conversation with the Tigers last fall, written up by the local press, and was 100% sincere about it.

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, KL2 said:

 

In an ideal world sure. We ain't there. How about we try scoring runs before we worry about doing both. You can have the greatest d in the world, it doesn't matter if you keep losing 1-0

You can do some of both.  It's hard to have good offense and defense at every position and very few teams have done that.  However, I think it's hard to win if you just go for offense and have poor defense at every position.   

[RatkoVarda]

Fulmer to Cubs

[chasfh]

Cubs have had quite a good offseason. I know the projections continue to be down on them, just as they are on the Tigers, but if they stay healthy and things break the right way, Cubs could take that division.

[casimir]

3 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I think they will win 75 to 77 games and be interesting and at times entertaining so count me as bullish at this point even without Skuball.

 

 

 

75 to 77 wins should be enough to win a one team division.

[gehringer_2]

52 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

You can do some of both.  It's hard to have good offense and defense at every position and very few teams have done that.  However, I think it's hard to win if you just go for offense and have poor defense at every position.   

I think you can sacrifice a fair amount of defense at the corners for offense. A lot of teams have won a lot of games with a LF, 1B and 3B that weren't great gloves, but 2B, SS, CF probably not so much. What you don't want to do is give up offense for defense in LF and then play a SS who can't field!

[Edman85]

Man, I remember some OOTP teams I had 20 or so years ago where I had forsaken defense. Team ERA's in the 6's.

[Sports_Freak]

On 2/7/2023 at 8:46 PM, Tiger337 said:

They got players that can maybe do more than he did in 2022, but not more than he did in 2020-2021.  

And much cheaper too. I really can't believe we have to attempt another rebuild. Kinda disappointed. 

[Tiger337]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:13 PM, Edman85 said:

Regardless of the question, one of those eight guys is likely to. Now, sifting through and finding the one who does.

I think Maton is being slept on, particularly by the "Harris didn't acquire a 3B" crew.

A couple of them could.  I'm thinking Maton or Malloy.  I wouldn't say it's likely they'll replace Candelario's production from 2021 when he was a 4 WAR player.  Of course, what's important is whether they are better than the 2023 version of Candelaro.  

[Longgone]

4 hours ago, KL2 said:

 

In an ideal world sure. We ain't there. How about we try scoring runs before we worry about doing both. You can have the greatest d in the world, it doesn't matter if you keep losing 1-0

Every player is a composite. Whether he creates runs or prevents them, both have value. Get players who offer the most overall value, you don't focus on just one obvious factor.

[Sports_Freak]

5 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

I think he already had that conversation with the Tigers last fall, written up by the local press, and was 100% sincere about it.

It was in the Free Press today that Cabrera was going to play in the WBC. He said it doesn't matter if it's in a PH role, part of a game or full game role. He just wanted to be there to support his team.

[Sports_Freak]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:07 PM, Edman85 said:

 

Odds are at least one of Maton, Malloy, Kreidler, Ibanez, Nevin, Lipcius, Short, or Hernandez will.

Just holders for a team not expected to compete.

[mtutiger]

11 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Just holders for a team not expected to compete.

No different than any free agent acquisition would have been at the position... and no different than keeping Candy would have been.

Regarding the guys Ed mentioned, you dont just acquire for past track record, you acquire for what they could become. For all we know, as Ed suggests, Maton may be a underrated commodity and hold the position more firmly than we think. 

We just don't really know until they play the games

Edited February 11, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

No different than any free agent acquisition would have been at the position... and no different than keeping Candy would have been.

Regarding the guys Ed mentioned, you dont just acquire for past track record, you acquire for what they could become. For all we know, as Ed suggests, Maton may be a underrated commodity and hold the position more firmly than we think. 

We just don't really know until they play the games

The lack of ability to find/develop talent that hadn't been demonstrated yet is exactly why Avila is gone. It's how a FO creates a winning team without simply buying it at premium cost, which is what you have to do to acquire talent that has been demonstrated. So one way to look at this is that we now have Harris exactly because Ilitch hopes/believes he is going have a higher batting average on the "acquire for what they could become" piece. So must we all.

Edited February 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

49 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The lack of ability to find/develop talent that hadn't been demonstrated yet is exactly why Avila is gone. It's how a FO creates a winning team without simply buying it at premium cost, which is what you have to do to acquire talent that has been demonstrated. So one way to look at this is that we now have Harris exactly because Ilitch hopes/believes he is going have a higher batting average on the "acquire for what they could become" piece. So must we all.

Avila also traded players for guys he hoped would become good.  We can hope that Harris is better at it.  The deals they made this winter were actually closer to Randy Smith deals in th acquired players are closer to being finished products.  We can also hope that Harris is better than Smith!

[casimir]

14 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Man, I remember some OOTP teams I had 20 or so years ago where I had forsaken defense. Team ERA's in the 6's.

I remember an old version of where I used real life players and Reid Brignac was an annual all star.

[casimir]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Avila also traded players for guys he hoped would become good.  We can hope that Harris is better at it.  The deals they made this winter were actually closer to Randy Smith deals in th acquired players are closer to being finished products.  We can also better hope that Harris is better than Smith!

Just trying to lend some help.

[casimir]

23 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Juan Encarnacion was going to be the answer to all of our prayers.

Instead we cursed him in 2006.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

The lack of ability to find/develop talent that hadn't been demonstrated yet is exactly why Avila is gone. It's how a FO creates a winning team without simply buying it at premium cost, which is what you have to do to acquire talent that has been demonstrated. So one way to look at this is that we now have Harris exactly because Ilitch hopes/believes he is going have a higher batting average on the "acquire for what they could become" piece. So must we all.

The thing about Harris and what he did this offseason is that it wasn't, at least in my view, incredibly surprising. Not just because of where the Tigers are at organizationally, but also because of his pedigree, particularly during his time under Farhan in SF. They have tended to rely on trades and short term deals, often with distressed or underappreciated assets in the past. And while 2022 wasn't great for the Giants, that strategy, through some level of luck and performance, was enough to win 107 games in 2021.

Given that, as has often been mentioned around here, both the Tigers and Giants had the same record (64-98) in 2017 and have been a much different trajectory since then, we'd be more open to the change in philosophy being implemented. But then again, seven straight years of losing sucks and tends to breed impatience.

Edited February 11, 2023 by mtutiger

[Toddwert]

20 minutes ago, casimir said:

Instead we cursed him in 2006.

Too bad he couldnt avoid baseballs to the face I always liked him

Edited February 11, 2023 by Toddwert

[Tiger337]

I was not a big Encarnacion fan.  Players that can't draw walks have a hard time sustaining long term success.  I was more of a fan of Kapler who, of course, fared no better.  

[Jim Cowan]

I liked the power and speed combination, and he had the arm to go with it.  He had a superb year in Double A at a very young age, and I was convinced.