chasfh Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: LOL. During a rebuild. What were you expecting during a rebuild, a top 5 Payroll? Seriously, where does your logic come from? Which planet? As it turns out, it never was a rebuild. Edited November 2, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 16 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Going all the way back to when Tom Monaghan bought the franchise from Fetzer, FO competence has always been a bigger road block than ownership resourcing. Amen brother !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An organization with marginal competence would have identified, attracted, obtained, trained, and retained the correct personnel to be successful. Money, schmoney. Show me some fundamental organizational competence first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 and Jim Campbell had his own issues with the FO prior to Monoghan. They were the 2nd to last team to get a black player. Cheap. Bill Lajoie saved Campbell's reputation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 18 hours ago, chasfh said: I think you will get your wish in that Miggy will either be talked into stepping away with the money, which I think is a real long shot, or be spending the majority of the year on one of the ILs, I'm thinking probably the 60. I suppose another option is that he clocks in with another 400 or 450 plate appearances, but I think that's also a long shot. I probably should stop squawking about wanting Miggy gone, but it is based upon an organizational necessity of clearly communicating that there are no exceptions in the pursuit in excellence. The front office has been a country club for some time and Harris has addressed part of that issue. For organizational health reasons I want Miggy gone. It is nothing personal. I wish Miggy well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: As it turns out, it never was a rebuild. No, it is, and was a rebuild. It may be a rebuild with lots and lots of faults... but it is a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 1 hour ago, HeyAbbott said: I probably should stop squawking about wanting Miggy gone, but it is based upon an organizational necessity of clearly communicating that there are no exceptions in the pursuit in excellence. The front office has been a country club for some time and Harris has addressed part of that issue. For organizational health reasons I want Miggy gone. It is nothing personal. I wish Miggy well. Its not like releasing him would be without sound reason. He's just not an effective baseball player anymore. And I know some folks still think he has some drawing power as far as attendance is concerned, but they are in the lower 3rd of attendance at less than 20K per game last season, the same deal as 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 1 hour ago, oblong said: and Jim Campbell had his own issues with the FO prior to Monoghan. They were the 2nd to last team to get a black player. Cheap. Bill Lajoie saved Campbell's reputation. In fairness to Campbell...hecdid have a deal in place to buy Vida Blue from the As for $1 million before Finley backed out and sold him to the Yankees for 1.5. Having Blue and Fidrych might have made the Tigers a more attractive destination forvthat 1st free agent class of 76-77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: In fairness to Campbell...hecdid have a deal in place to buy Vida Blue from the As for $1 million before Finley backed out and sold him to the Yankees for 1.5. Having Blue and Fidrych might have made the Tigers a more attractive destination forvthat 1st free agent class of 76-77 I do remember hearing about such rumblings as CFinley was supposedly quoted "The Night is still Young" after his first initial moves on that eve not in regards to VBlue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Those are nice AAA ratios. But the 22 2/3 IP qualifier is missing from the tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 6 hours ago, mtutiger said: This sounds right, just from the press reports at the time it seemed more like a lateral move with an additional title (AGM) handed out (maybe I'm wrong tho). Which logically would suggest the Tigers had to make it worth his while. It isn't lateral. He has more duties for the Tigers. Overseeing international is a big deal, and it is more of a top level job for amateur scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: LOL. During a rebuild. What were you expecting during a rebuild, a top 5 Payroll? Seriously, where does your logic come from? Which planet? You really need to tone it down. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 "Average" does not = "Top 5" I have been saying "at least average payroll" for the last 7 years. Said it about 10 times just in the last 48 hours in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 It is going to be funny when all these waiver claims go through waivers again in the next month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 35 minutes ago, sabretooth said: You really need to tone it down. Excuse me? Tone what down? Asking which planet you're from is so egregious that it needs to be "toned down"? Don't be so thin-skinned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 34 minutes ago, sabretooth said: "Average" does not = "Top 5" I have been saying "at least average payroll" for the last 7 years. Said it about 10 times just in the last 48 hours in this thread. And no one expects an "average" payroll during a rebuild. So your last 7 years' complaints are moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: No, it is, and was a rebuild. It may be a rebuild with lots and lots of faults... but it is a rebuild. It’s not a rebuild if it goes on for seven seasons and there are no playoff appearances and the team is no better than it was when it started. It was a dismantling. The actual rebuild started September 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Excuse me? Tone what down? Asking which planet you're from is so egregious that it needs to be "toned down"? Don't be so thin-skinned. You make a point without getting personal and nasty about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: It’s not a rebuild if it goes on for seven seasons and there are no playoff appearances and the team is no better than it was when it started. It was a dismantling. The actual rebuild started September 19. I think we're getting into semantics here but... Just because a rebuild fails doesn't mean it should then be called a dismantling, IMO. Call it a failed rebuild (and that's not even yet to be determined), but it's not like they didn't try at all... This wasn't a Finley or Huizenga dump of any and all salaries come hell or high water... Miggy Cabrera, Zimmerman, Pelfrey (and others) PROVE that. And though all of those failed - spectacularly - the attempt to remain competitive and spend on salaries (badly) still disproves a "dismantling". And it's not as if we didn't hunt bargain FA's all along (we DID!!!) trying to find extra value or some form of competitiveness... it's just that most of Avila's signings did fail. Outside of Fiers, Grossman (for a year anyways), Schoop (same), Javier Baez, Eduardo Rodriguez... But failed signings is not a dismantling, it's a failed FA signing. I lived through, and watched, as Huizenga forced Dombrowski to trade off anyone, any veteran, and everyone, making decent money after the Marlins won their first World Series. A team that DD built from scratch. And then he traded and drafted their next World Series team. I know exactly what a dismantling looks like. And this was no dismantling. Not by a long-shot. A failed rebuild if anyone wants to call it that. But the funny thing is... If Manning/ Mize/ Skubal/ Dingler/ Tork/ Greene/ Carpenter/ Keith/ Wentz/ Turnbull/ Baez/ Rodriguez/ headline our next Playoff capable team... was this even a failed rebuild? Or was everyone just too impatient to ride this thing out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, sabretooth said: You make a point without getting personal and nasty about it. There was nothing nasty about that. It's called a barb. To look for a reaction. Yeah... thin-skinned. So I got yours now... any comment whatsoever and you melt down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 I'll leave it to others to decide if the characterization of my responses are accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I think we're getting into semantics here but... Just because a rebuild fails doesn't mean it should then be called a dismantling, IMO. Call it a failed rebuild (and that's not even yet to be determined), but it's not like they didn't try at all... This wasn't a Finley or Huizenga dump of any and all salaries come hell or high water... Miggy Cabrera, Zimmerman, Pelfrey (and others) PROVE that. And though all of those failed - spectacularly - the attempt to remain competitive and spend on salaries (badly) still disproves a "dismantling". And it's not as if we didn't hunt bargain FA's all along (we DID!!!) trying to find extra value or some form of competitiveness... it's just that most of Avila's signings did fail. Outside of Fiers, Grossman (for a year anyways), Schoop (same), Javier Baez, Eduardo Rodriguez... But failed signings is not a dismantling, it's a failed FA signing. I lived through, and watched, as Huizenga forced Dombrowski to trade off anyone, any veteran, and everyone, making decent money after the Marlins won their first World Series. A team that DD built from scratch. And then he traded and drafted their next World Series team. I know exactly what a dismantling looks like. And this was no dismantling. Not by a long-shot. A failed rebuild if anyone wants to call it that. But the funny thing is... If Manning/ Mize/ Skubal/ Dingler/ Tork/ Greene/ Carpenter/ Keith/ Wentz/ Turnbull/ Baez/ Rodriguez/ headline our next Playoff capable team... was this even a failed rebuild? Or was everyone just too impatient to ride this thing out? Speaking of semantics—just because they call it a "rebuild" does not mean it's an actual rebuild. The Avila regime paid no attention to the lower rounds of the draft; were underrepresented in the Latin American AFA market; were completely absent from the Asian market, did not make trades to build the team for the future, did not scour the waiver wire looking for opportunities; and did not sign undervalued free agents for the future. All they did was tank—giving up all-stars and future Hall-of-Famers for organizational flotsam so they could maximize their losses to collect top first-round picks, while occasionally dabbling in the Rule 5 draft. They endeavored to do the very least they could possibly get away with to be considered rebuilding, and they didn't accomplish even that. Come on, give up and finally admit it: the Tigers weren't rebuilding to build a solid foundation for the future—they were treading water and cashing revenue-sharing checks. What you call rebuilding is actually what Scott Harris and his team are embarking upon right now. Anything positive they get coming from the prior regime is not the residue of good planning—it's the result of no-plan-having luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Chafin declined his option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 34 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Chafin declined his option. Well, that’s one opened 40 man slot. Not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 We're keeping the "failed starter" t-shirts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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