2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Tenacious D]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

its horrible to break up a family like that.

And any chances that Hulu picks up their sitcom pilot, featuring the wacky hijinks of a couple of utility guys thrust into being full-time players. 

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

And any chances that Hulu picks up their sitcom pilot, featuring the wacky hijinks of a couple of utility guys thrust into being full-time players. 

"too many castros..."

[Tenacious D]

18 minutes ago, buddha said:

"too many castros..."

Think you meant “two many castros…”

[casimir]

7 hours ago, buddha said:

its horrible to break up a family like that.

66-96.  Break it up into smithereens.

[HeyAbbott]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

66-96.  Break it up into smithereens.

We have a 40 man roster with 2 Castros, Kody Clemens,Zack Short, and a player named Miggy. So far, I see another 5 to 7 players who need to be gone.

Edited November 11, 2022 by HeyAbbott
clean up the last sentence

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Gald to see B Garcia cleared waivers. I like having him in the system as insurance and he's still a lottery ticket to turn into something as a starter.

Bryan Garcia will never be anything more than he is right now: a seven-strikeout, five-walk thrower with a declining fastball who yields elevated contact and relies on low BABIP to get outs. The best we can hope for out of him is to be a sweetener in a deal that obtains us actual useful players in return, which is why I think he (plus Victor et al) are being optioned out to Toledo.

[gehringer_2]

56 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Bryan Garcia will never be anything more than he is right now: a seven-strikeout, five-walk thrower with a declining fastball who yields elevated contact and relies on low BABIP to get outs. The best we can hope for out of him is to be a sweetener in a deal that obtains us actual useful players in return, which is why I think he (plus Victor et al) are being optioned out to Toledo.

I'd still be happy to have him after next three starters fall to TJ though......

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'd still be happy to have him after next three starters fall to TJ though......

If you're happy to have Bryan Garcia, then the season is way beyond a lost cause.

[chasfh]

This is how traumatized over the years we Tiger fans have become—we regard sub-replacement players we've seen losing games for us for years as acceptable pieces for the team going forward. I am so glad a new day has dawned when this kind of thinking will soon be relegated to the garbage can of low expectations.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This is how traumatized over the years we Tiger fans have become—we regard sub-replacement players we've seen losing games for us for years as acceptable pieces for the team going forward. I am so glad a new day has dawned when this kind of thinking will soon be relegated to the garbage can of low expectations.

If they don't solve their pitching injury epidemic any expectations are going to be in the garbage can.

[1984Echoes]

13 hours ago, Edman85 said:

There is a difference between refusing assignment and six year minor league free agency. Unless those guys have re-upped, they are gone...

Wait a second... if they've been "outrighted to Toledo", aren't they still with us?

If they are "gone", doesn't that mean that they would have to "declare" free agency in order to be gone? And if they haven't declared, again, they are still with us...?

[1984Echoes]

Saw some further info as I am catching up in this thread...

Not trying to get technical here, but...

"outrighted to Toledo" means that a guy is still with the team, doesn't it? The player has to do "something", either refusing assignment or electing free agency, in order to trigger that free agency. They don't "automatically" become a FA if they've been outrighted to Toledo...  Or am I reading that incorrectly?

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Saw some further info as I am catching up in this thread...

Not trying to get technical here, but...

"outrighted to Toledo" means that a guy is still with the team, doesn't it? The player has to do "something", either refusing assignment or electing free agency, in order to trigger that free agency. They don't "automatically" become a FA if they've been outrighted to Toledo...  Or am I reading that incorrectly?

The Freep seems to have reported that Reyes opted to become a FA, though two different paragraphs in the story don't necessarily agree. They didn't report on the others.

Edited November 11, 2022 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

1 hour ago, HeyAbbott said:

We have a 40 man roster with 2 Castros, Kody Clemens,Zack Short, and a player named Miggy. So far, I see another 5 to 7 players who need to be gone.

You forget to add "former".

[chasfh]

18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

If they don't solve their pitching injury epidemic any expectations are going to be in the garbage can.

They've taken steps to address that.

[1984Echoes]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's like Edman said, the terminology gets very picky and the media guys tend not to be very precise. Players have certain rights at certain service time levels and as Ed noted, some of the guys taken off the roster have some of those rights - including B. Garcia and Reyes - though even in their two cases, they have rights for different reasons.

Right... but what I'm saying is that they have to do "something". Technically, they are still with the organization if they've been outrighted... at least until they do that "something" that triggers their freedom (in loud Mel Gibson scream...).

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

They've taken steps to address that.

well, they have another brain, they haven't had time to turn that into a program and it hasn't been long enough to know if the program is going to make a difference.

And it depends on someone actually knowing why these guys were all going down in the 1st place, which seems to be a $64,000 question throughout baseball.

I will be curious to see if the Tigers pitchers begin to cut down on the % of breaking balls they throw. IIRC, Fetter and Hinch actually wanted guys like Skubal throw fewer FBs when he was up around 60%. I could see that as being part of the 'program'. Or not.

Edited November 11, 2022 by gehringer_2

[RatkoVarda]

some guesses here for Detroit: Profar, Quintana, Elfin and Taillon

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/mlb-trade-rumors-top-50-free-agents-predictions-2022-23.html

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well, they have another brain, they haven't had time to turn that into a program and it hasn't been long enough to know if the program is going to make a difference.

And it depends on someone actually knowing why these guys were all going down in the 1st place, which seems to be a $64,000 question throughout baseball.

It's been only a couple weeks since the moves on the training staff. It's only mid-November!

I believe this is another hangover from the Avila era: the implicit assumption that any move the Tigers front office makes to address anything either won't make any difference, or is at best 50/50 due only to luck. I would agree that was true under the Avila regime, who simply didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Fans can believe going in that this will also be true under Harris because plus ça change and all that, and be as skeptical of him as they were of the former guy. And maybe that's totally fair to expect until he documents some success, I don't know. Perhaps I'm blindly checking my skepticism at the door and huffing some hopium, but as for me, I'm going to give Harris the benefit of the doubt that it will be fixed until we see that it isn't, because I trust his process based on his background and interviews.

As for injuries throughout Baseball: I'm starting to wonder whether the Drivelining of the game in general—wherein the quest to add even a single tick and a little late movement to fastballs, in order to induce more swing-and-miss, leads to maxing out the stress on shoulders and elbows while training for it—isn't a factor leading to the injuries.

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I'm starting to wonder whether the Drivelining of the game in general—wherein the quest to add even a single tick and a little late movement to fastballs, in order to induce more swing-and-miss, leads to maxing out the stress on shoulders and elbows while training for it—isn't a factor leading to the injuries.

Yup. I've had pretty much the same reservation. The fact that you can now teach a pitcher to get the absolute maximum performance pitch out of his arm doesn't mean it's a good idea to throw a lot of them!

[Motor City Sonics]

5 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

some guesses here for Detroit: Profar, Quintana, Elfin and Taillon

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/mlb-trade-rumors-top-50-free-agents-predictions-2022-23.html

That feels very Al Avila-esque.  

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Yup. I've had pretty much the same reservation. The fact that you can now teach a pitcher to get the absolute maximum performance pitch out of his arm doesn't mean it's a good idea to throw a lot of them!

Deaden the ball, remove the fear of all nine guys in the order being able take you out of the park, and pitchers won't have to throw so hard with so much torque to get swing-and-miss. They can just heave it up there and say here you go, hit it and get yourself out.

I don't understand why no one ever contemplates that idea except me.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Deaden the ball, remove the fear of all nine guys in the order being able take you out of the park, and pitchers won't have to throw so hard with so much torque to get swing-and-miss. They can just heave it up there and say here you go, hit it and get yourself out.

I don't understand why no one ever contemplates that idea except me.

because anything that requires forgoing present reward for future reward is hard to sell to the human animal. What was the story that dominated baseball all last season again? 

..( hint - "have you guys seen Mark?)

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

because anything that requires forgoing present reward for future reward is hard to sell to the human animal. What was the story that dominated baseball all last season again? 

..( hint - "have you guys seen Mark?)

I understand. The Baseball marketing machine thrives on home runs and strikeouts, and the increase of both is a direct result of the live ball. I'm just saying, if Baseball cared—I mean really cared—about protecting pitchers from injuries, instead of just letting it happen since it happily maintains the fungibility and thus cost control of the pitcher pool, I'm certain deadening the ball would accomplish that.

[Edman85]

Anybody not on the 40 man roster with seven years of professional (minor or major league) service time are free agents as of yesterday at 5 pm. Of all the players outrighted yesterday, Luis Garcia is the only who is not eligible.