gehringer_2 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I remember being frustrated with Kaline, who needed 3 years to get his last 300 hits, and was obviously just hanging on to get to 3,000. But with him the issue wasn't performance it was injuries. In his last year he did get 630 PA's, thank goodness, or else he would have come back for another year. yeah - the situation has changed dramatically since Kaline and Mays' day. Guys were not on huge long term deals and teams were more than willing to cut bait with guys whose performance had dropped regardless of who they were. You got pretty much one year to prove you were done and you were out. I'm pretty certain that Miguel would not have have been playing in the majors for the last two years or so under the contract arrangements that existed years ago. When you think about it puts more luster on the records of the old timers who had to get to those counting statss without benefit of being able to hang on to roster spots because of their team's contract liability to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I know it's happening and I accept it. I just don't want to rationalize why it's OK because of his long ago past. Cabrera and Candelario were essentially similar hitters last season, just for a bit of perspective. Yet some folks wanted one run out of town while wanting to keep the other for one more season. Makes a whole lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 45 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I remember being frustrated with Kaline, who needed 3 years to get his last 300 hits, and was obviously just hanging on to get to 3,000. But with him the issue wasn't performance it was injuries. In his last year he did get 630 PA's, thank goodness, or else he would have come back for another year. Performance is absolutely the issue with Cabrera. If he were a .750 OPS type of hitter, his heath issues and lack of dandy defensive value wouldn’t be an issue. But he’s not, those days have passed by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 I would have liked for Candelario to have stayed I think he's a good bet to recover to at least a 2-win player, which is worth seven million bucks. I don't think the lineup is necessarily stronger with Miggy than without him, but I don't know if he's even going to be on the field for much of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, casimir said: Performance is absolutely the issue with Cabrera. If he were a .750 OPS type of hitter, his heath issues and lack of dandy defensive value wouldn’t be an issue. But he’s not, those days have passed by. Correct. The mistake was made almost 9 years ago by a guy who is now dead. Cabrera was guaranteed to be on the team through 2023 and there was never a chance of any other outcome except career-ending injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Jim Cowan said: Correct. The mistake was made almost 9 years ago by a guy who is now dead. Cabrera was guaranteed to be on the team through 2023 and there was never a chance of any other outcome except career-ending injury. That mistake is being exacerbated by the mistake of keeping him on the major league roster despite his not being a player worthy of a spot on a major league roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 Since Miggy has announced that he will retire after 2023, does that mean we are no longer on the hook for the $8 million buyout? Seems to me that would be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, chasfh said: Since Miggy has announced that he will retire after 2023, does that mean we are no longer on the hook for the $8 million buyout? Seems to me that would be the case. I believe he is still owed that. Hell, he could pull a Pujols and make the option vest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Edman85 said: I believe he is still owed that. Hell, he could pull a Pujols and make the option vest! Are you sure? The minute the season ends he’s retired, and the buyout is intended as a negotiated hedge against a team not exercising an option, which I believe becomes a non-factor if he retires. So I don’t understand how he still has a claim on the buyout money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Retired players hit free agency as a procedural technicality, and buyouts are baked into the contract guarantee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 OK I see how that can make sense from a technical standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 And the joke I made on Twitter the other day... Cabrera's option vests with a Top 10 MVP finish this year. If the two Detroit chapter voters that voted for him for Tigers POY this year get MVP ballots next year, don't rule that out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 4 hours ago, buddha said: defending al avila as the hill you choose to die on is an interesting decision. It was Ilitch who extended Miggy. IMO, Avila was horrible. Most of the players he signed or traded for didn't produce. But they played anyway because they had to pay them anyway....but any horrible player he signed or traded for pales in comparison to his biggest blunder, extending Brad when he should have been fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Edman85 said: Jackson Jobe was absolutely a reach. True. And the return on some of the established all-star quality players we traded was underwhelming. But how many of us ever thought JV would still be winning Cy Young awards at age 39? The way he takes care of himself, I guess it wasn't out of the question. But still...natural age regression... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Good luck to Candy. I truly wish him well and am also glad he is gone. I don't understand this. Why would anyone be glad unless we had a replacement? It's like quitting a job, have a new one lined up before quitting. We might not even get thru April without realizing we miss him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 19 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I don't understand this. Why would anyone be glad unless we had a replacement? It's like quitting a job, have a new one lined up before quitting. We might not even get thru April without realizing we miss him. A lot of offseason left. They were forced to make the call on Candy when they did. I’m fairly confident someone will be brought in prior to Spring Training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Don't forget that Cabrera plays third base. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: A lot of offseason left. They were forced to make the call on Candy when they did. I’m fairly confident someone will be brought in prior to Spring Training. Yes, I'm sure <someone> will be brought in. My concern is lack of production or terrible defense. Candy had a bad year. But so did many other positions. 1st base, 2nd base and the entire outfield. And we sat out top HR hitter from 2021 for 3/4 of the season over some very weak hitting catcher. Candy's year was concerning but not our biggest problem. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Since Miggy has announced that he will retire after 2023, does that mean we are no longer on the hook for the $8 million buyout? Seems to me that would be the case. no, the option belongs to the tigers (unless it vests by him getting mvp votes, which it wont). the tigers have the option of paying him $32 million in 2024 OR paying him $8 million not to play for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 58 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: A lot of offseason left. They were forced to make the call on Candy when they did. I’m fairly confident someone will be brought in prior to Spring Training. This is my sentiments as well plus a desire for a new vision screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Edman85 said: I believe he is still owed that. Hell, he could pull a Pujols and make the option vest! Did someone say Will Vest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: True. And the return on some of the established all-star quality players we traded was underwhelming. But how many of us ever thought JV would still be winning Cy Young awards at age 39? The way he takes care of himself, I guess it wasn't out of the question. But still...natural age regression... Who here isn't doing what they used to could do at 39? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 9 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Don't forget that Cabrera plays third base. Heck, didn't the Marlins sign him as a SS? Baez to 2B, Cabrera to SS. What a fun double play combo that could be, eh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Yes, I'm sure <someone> will be brought in. My concern is lack of production or terrible defense. Candy had a bad year. But so did many other positions. 1st base, 2nd base and the entire outfield. And we sat out top HR hitter from 2021 for 3/4 of the season over some very weak hitting catcher. Candy's year was concerning but not our biggest problem. Just my opinion. Maybe Candy wasn't the biggest overall problem, but he was a problem who had a decision to be made contractually during this offseason. And they acted on it. While I see the other side, I am fine with the decision they made. And as free agency proved, at the end of the day, the league didn't feel he was a $7 million dollar player so I cannot blame the Tigers for wanting to move on and see if they can find something different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) Completely random, but worthy of noting. Buck O'Neil popped up as one of the players when I jumped on baseball reference. If thinking of Buck O'Neil's voice and story telling don't brighten your mood, gosh, I just don't know what to tell you. Edited December 1, 2022 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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