2023 NFL Draft Thread

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Lockdown CB is a must. He will find his Jalen Ramsey. Those guys go early. 

ringo might be the only "jalen ramsey" type in the draft.  and if you want him, you have to get him early.  its either him or a top qb like levis.

[buddha]

i still like bryce young over any of the qbs.  he makes plays with his arm, head and legs.  stroud looks like goff to me, cant handle pressure and wont move.  not sure if that works as well as a qb who can move in today's nfl.  but stroud has a great arm and great touch.  someone will take him (hopefully the texans at 1).

the athletic trade scenarios:

6, 44, 62, and a 2024 second to the texans for the #1 pick (bryce young)

6, 74 for the #3 pick (cj stroud)

thoughts?  i dont think that's enough to move up from 6 to 3.  the bears gave up #3, #67, #111 and a future 3rd to move up from 3 to 2.  i dont think the lions get to #3 without throwing in some future draft capital too.

the niners gave up #12, two future firsts and a future third to go up to 3.  just a third to go up to #3 seems light.

[Motown Bombers]

Well here's something to think about.

 

[RandyMarsh]

26 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Well here's something to think about.

 

I certainly wouldn't do that but if a team falls in love with a QB they've been known to give up whatever it takes to get them which is why I really hope Chicago doesn't get the number 2 pick and wouldn't be opposed to us losing to them late in the season to help that cause.  I don't want them getting a potentially franchise altering haul, if some team is going to get that I'd prefer it be an AFC team or even better us.

[djhutch]

I'm hoping the Bears turn it on a bit & slide out of the 2, leaving the door open for the Rams pick at 2.  That would most assuredly leave Will Anderson there for the taking - but could also potentially allow us to trade back, get more picks, & still get a lock down corner.

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, djhutch said:

I'm hoping the Bears turn it on a bit & slide out of the 2, leaving the door open for the Rams pick at 2.  That would most assuredly leave Will Anderson there for the taking - but could also potentially allow us to trade back, get more picks, & still get a lock down corner.

Chicago and Los Angeles both have 3 wins. Chicago has one more loss since they haven't had their bye week. As it stands, if LA and Chicago end up tied in the standings, LA would have the higher pick. The Bears don't actually need to win for the Rams to get to #2. Tie breakers for the draft is based on strength of schedule. The bears do have a tough remaining schedule, so their strength of schedule is only going to go up which also means they are more likely to lose out. 

[Motown Bombers]

The team we have to look out for is Denver. They are tied with LA but the Rams hold the slimmest of margins in opponents win percentage so they are ahead of Denver. Denver has a brutal schedule so they can theoretically lose out. The only easy game they have is against the Rams. Outside of that, they still play Kansas City twice, Arizona, Chargers and Baltimore on the road. 

[RedRamage]

10 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Well here's something to think about.

 

Ewww... I hate that trade.  As Buddha nicely put it earlier... I'll defer to people much more talented in prospect analysis than I am (ie, an actual NFL front office)... but at first blush... ewww.  I give up a 12th over all and my first 2nd-round pick and wherever we land in 2024 to move up 3 spaces in the first round and 6 spaces in the second round?  That just feels like WAY to much price for the small jumps.

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Ewww... I hate that trade.  As Buddha nicely put it earlier... I'll defer to people much more talented in prospect analysis than I am (ie, an actual NFL front office)... but at first blush... ewww.  I give up a 12th over all and my first 2nd-round pick and wherever we land in 2024 to move up 3 spaces in the first round and 6 spaces in the second round?  That just feels like WAY to much price for the small jumps.

I posted it so we could mock and laugh at Bears fans. If Holmes did that he should be fired. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Motown Bombers

[RedRamage]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I posted it so we could laugh and mock at Bears fans. If Holmes did that he should be fired. 

Phew... okay, good.  I thought based on your comment that you were at least entertaining the idea... not accepting it, but at least thinking that maybe it might work out.  Very good to hear you were laughing at it.

[Motor City Sonics]

I love it.   You don't want to tank two years in a row because you don't want to infect your team with a losing mentality.  But you don't have to because the Rams are tanking for you.     So you can still get a Top 5 pick (Stafford is likely done for the year) and probably pick around 16 or 17.     That was your best-case draft scenario wasn't it?    A very high pick and the Rams struggling.  but you expected YOUR pick to be #3 and the Rams to be #16 or #17.       

Plus the Packers suck, so that makes things good too.   

 

Only team that could be happier is Seattle - getting Denver's pick (which could be #2 or #3) and getting a BUNCH of Denver picks and not having to pay a QB a quarter of a billion.   The heist of the century.  Better than the Herschel Walker trade.  

 

I saw the end of the Colts-Steelers game.   Why are so many coaches so bad at managing the clock?     I guess being in the thick of it on the sidelines makes it harder, but I don't know, man.......some things should be baked into the brain.  

 

[Motown Bombers]

It's looking like Russell Wilson is being exposed as a fraud. Now we also get to see more how weird he is. Teams may start pumping the brakes on trading for vets. I think the Watson trade for Cleveland can go south as well. 

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's looking like Russell Wilson is being exposed as a fraud. Now we also get to see more how weird he is. Teams may start pumping the brakes on trading for vets. I think the Watson trade for Cleveland can go south as well. 

So... is Carroll/Wilson the anti-Belichick/Brady?  I mean you've got a QB who was considered fantastic who dropped off the cliff when he left Seattle while Geno fricken-Smith moves into Seattle and starts winning and putting up great numbers.

Compare that with how NE has dropped off the cliff after Brady left and TB goes on to win a SB with Brady.

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's looking like Russell Wilson is being exposed as a fraud. Now we also get to see more how weird he is. Teams may start pumping the brakes on trading for vets. I think the Watson trade for Cleveland can go south as well. 

Trading for guys in their 30's, who have taken a lot of shots, probably isn't the best idea unless you are one piece away.   Maybe that's what Denver thought, but I didn't think that going into this season.   I didn't think they'd be bad like this, though.   

 

I saw one headline that said "Did the Rams build their team the wrong way?"     How stupid.  They won a  Super B***, so they actually did build it the right way.    You could say that to our fan base  - Hey Lions fans, if you could build a team that would have one magical season and win the Super B*** and then go back to sucking, would ya?    HELL YES !

[NYLion]

17 hours ago, buddha said:

all good points.

i'll leave it to the people with actual talent evaluating skills (i.e. not me) to make thar decision because i really have no idea.

(which will not prevent me from making my usual half assed opinions om the subject)

All of us are amateurs tbh although I feel us as a team could have done a better job than most Lions scouts over the last 60+ years. All we'd have to do is not completely screw up and we'd be an upgrade.

[Jason_R]

13 hours ago, buddha said:

ringo might be the only "jalen ramsey" type in the draft.  and if you want him, you have to get him early.  its either him or a top qb like levis.

I’ve seen at least three mocks that have us taking Cam Smith from SC with our second first round pick. Don’t know how he compares to Ringo, who is gone by 10 in most drafts.

I’d still love to see Holmes draft another big man for the DL with the Rams pick, and then a CB. But if the Rams lose out and Houston botches their tank job, I wouldn’t cry if Holmes picks Young. 

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Trading for guys in their 30's, who have taken a lot of shots, probably isn't the best idea unless you are one piece away.   Maybe that's what Denver thought, but I didn't think that going into this season.   I didn't think they'd be bad like this, though.   

 

I saw one headline that said "Did the Rams build their team the wrong way?"     How stupid.  They won a  Super B***, so they actually did build it the right way.    You could say that to our fan base  - Hey Lions fans, if you could build a team that would have one magical season and win the Super B*** and then go back to sucking, would ya?    HELL YES !

It's the age old debate... is it better to be a great team that goes deep in the playoffs but doesn't win it all regularly?  Or is it better to have those flashes of greatness and bring it all home even if it means lots of low times between?

I think the answer to that is pretty much settled.  For example, look at this item for sale online

You'll note that there is zero references here to the 2006 season or the 2011-2014 seasons.

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I saw one headline that said "Did the Rams build their team the wrong way?"     How stupid.  They won a  Super B***, so they actually did build it the right way.    You could say that to our fan base  - Hey Lions fans, if you could build a team that would have one magical season and win the Super B*** and then go back to sucking, would ya?    HELL YES !

To be fair, I think there is a "right" and "wrong" way to build a team. The Rams winning the Super Bowl doesn't necessarily mean that 31 teams should replicate everything they did. I think we see Jacksonville mismanaging that in a way right now. They threw a bunch of money at players in free agency to build a win-now team, before they had drafted anything (save Lawrence if he materializes) around the pieces they were inputting. They're 4-7, just like the Lions.

The Rams tried building it through the draft to start, with pieces like Goff and Aaron Donald. A lot of those worked, some of them didn't, and as those players aged, and the Rams were good but still hadn't won a Super Bowl, it was at that point Snead put all his cards on the table, mortgaged the future, and it paid off. Now they're reaping the downsides of mortgaging the future.

To the question "did the Rams build their team the wrong way", the answer is obviously no, but it's also not asking the question they think it is. If you're looking to when they built that team, you're looking to 2014-2017, not 2021. If you're looking to when they made that team a Super Bowl Champion, it's 2021. There is no wrong way to make a Super Bowl Champion if you succeed at making a Super Bowl Champion.

To the question of whether Lions fans would prefer to win a Super Bowl and go back to sucking, the answer is obviously yes, but I think if given the choice I would prefer winning a Super Bowl AND sustained success... But just winning against Jacksonville on Sunday will do for now.

[Motown Bombers]

The Rams are the football version of the baseball team who trades their farm system for veterans to win now. It did get them a championship but there is going to be a rebuilding phase. They've gone 5 years without a 1st round pick. They traded two 1st rounders for Goff and have essentially traded 4 1st rounders for Stafford plus gave him a huge contract. I have to imagine they can only manipulate the cap so much. They have a lot of money locked into players that are approaching the wrong side of 30. The good thing about football is that rebuilds shouldn't take as long as baseball. After this pick they finally get some 1st round picks. 

[Motor City Sonics]

50 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Rams are the football version of the baseball team who trades their farm system for veterans to win now. It did get them a championship but there is going to be a rebuilding phase. They've gone 5 years without a 1st round pick. They traded two 1st rounders for Goff and have essentially traded 4 1st rounders for Stafford plus gave him a huge contract. I have to imagine they can only manipulate the cap so much. They have a lot of money locked into players that are approaching the wrong side of 30. The good thing about football is that rebuilds shouldn't take as long as baseball. After this pick they finally get some 1st round picks. 

The salary cap in the NFL is a myth.      It's like Speed Limit laws.  

[1984Echoes]

16 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Lockdown CB is a must. He will find his Jalen Ramsey. Those guys go early. 

I do NOT believe that a lockdown CB is more of a must than a franchise-QB-for-the-future, a dominant DL'man to solidify the D-Line, or a Von Miller dynamic LB'er who can cover TE's. Maybe on a par with the last two... but I do not see it as a superior need. But you take what the draft makes available to you or you incur the cost of moving up to "get your player" so, that being said... 

My 2023 wish list would be:

(Rams pick) Will Anderson 

(Lions pick) Joey Porter or Chris Gonzalez or even Ringo (whoever falls to our spot, and... I don't see any dominating must-pick LB'ers this year in the top 15 so I go CB here... Last Point: this also is where I think the Lions coaching staff can "coach a guy up" and not necessarily be in the top-10 for a CB, so the 2nd or 3rd guy could be good enough... IMO.)

2nd round (Lions) (Same with QB's, I don't see the must-pick franchise guy this year so I pass in the 1st and only if the Lions see something they want to develop would I want to go QB here... which may actually be a trade-up to the end of the 1st to go after Anthony Richardson for example, but... I don't see it...) So, after all that being said: Guys that could end up at the end of the 1st round to mid-2nd that I want are Nolan Smith or Trenton Simpson, LB'er, Antonio Johnson, Safety. Maybe a move is made to get back to the end of the 1st to nab Richardson if the Lions believe in him and are able to go up and get him...?

2nd (from the Vikings)/ 3rd (Lions)... with these two picks I'm looking for depth at RB and Guard: I see a few Center/ Guards around this area... being able to play both spots well-above-average would be attractive to the Lions methinks... Rick Stromberg or John Michael Schmitz, or a straight-up guard like Andrew Voorhees... For a depth/ developmental RB Zach Charbonnet out of UCLA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shinzaki]

Looking locally...I would look at UM's Oluwatimi for a C/G prospect in rd 2.  I would take a flyer on Sainristil in the late rds for DB depth. I reaaly like Corum for RB depth  In the 3rd/4th rd range I would look at BG's DL  Karl Brooks...he's excelled on the edge and inside.  

I don't know if he's going to be in the draft this year...but OSU's LB Tommy Eichenberg showed a lot of range against UM.  Every time I see OSU play..he stands out

Edited November 29, 2022 by Shinzaki

[Stanley70]

I hope they get a QB out of this draft, I really believe they will try. Hopefully Levis at 3 if he is worth it. While waiting until later and taking a QB has worked for teams in the past, there are far more examples of that strategy not working out. Of course at all hinges on finding the right QB and being able to get him without forking over too much draft capital.

Last year I watched a bunch of youtube highlight reels on Willis and Howard and thought that they were worth taking a gamble on, and neither were taken in the top 75 picks. So I have no idea if Levis is actually worth taking that high. And i don't want Stroud. 

[RandyMarsh]

Wilson, Prescott, Hurts, Cousins and Lamar Jackson(essentially a 2nd round pick) are recent examples of qbs that werent taken with a teams first pick that were hits but yeah generally that is a tough way to go but not impossible.

Edited November 29, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[1984Echoes]

Patrick Mahomes at pick #10 and Josh Allen at pick #7.

What that says is...

We hope the Lions scouting/ drafting is better than we are, since we are just guessing.

Or that Holmes is better than prior Lions GM's at drafting.

So far so good I think.

Now, if he can identify the next Mahomes or Josh Allen and it is Anthony Richardson and he uses the Rams pick to get him then... we just have to hope that he is RIGHT!!! And Richardson becomes a monster for us...