2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Motown Bombers]

Weird, so the Rams have everyone hurt is a valid excuse for Stafford and not Goff? Let's not pass over the next Mahomes because Mahomes just come along every draft. I guarantee Kansas City didn't even know they were drafting the next Mahomes. Guess we're just going to be delusional thinking there will be another Mahomes. Might as well just wait until the 6th round and draft another Tom Brady. 

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Goff has done a better job at dumping the ball and not taking a sack lately. 

He's also been better at throwing the deep ball. It's weird how when Chark and Williams are your deep threats it's easier to throw the deep ball vs Kalif Raymond. 

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, sagnam said:

Drafting a better QB should not be this controversial.  It’s the most important position on the field and to have an OK one is fine, but  having a great one is both rare and better.  If Holmes is the right man then he will only draft the right QB.  And if he finds the next Mahomes then sorry Jeff, you did a good job and had stretches with numbers comparable to Stafford, but even you can see we have to go with this great QB and make multiple Super Bowls now.

What if Brad Holmes doesn't like the crop of QBs available?

Really, that's what a lot of this conversation comes down to. If the GM thinks there's a can't miss generational talent available, then I doubt anyone would object to him pulling the trigger. But if that person isn't available, Goff has played well enough that I doubt he will draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB.

Edited December 15, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tigeraholic1]

3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

He's also been better at throwing the deep ball. It's weird how when Chark and Williams are your deep threats it's easier to throw the deep ball vs Kalif Raymond. 

Like that safety he took against Buffalo, you can't take that. Get an intentional grounding call, you gotta be smarter in those situations. Like I said he seems to be making better decision when he is under pressure.

[Motown Bombers]

I mean, Brad Holmes is the guy who scouted Goff and felt he was worthy to trade multiple draft picks for. The Rams notably did not trade up for Mahomes. 

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Like that safety he took against Buffalo, you can't take that. Get an intentional grounding call, you gotta be smarter in those situations. Like I said he seems to be making better decision when he is under pressure.

If he takes an intentional grounding in the end zone, that would be a safety. He had time to get rid of it though just needed to throw it close to a receiver. 

[MichiganCardinal]

I don’t know y’all, Goff has been having a pretty good year.

[Tigeraholic1]

24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If he takes an intentional grounding in the end zone, that would be a safety. He had time to get rid of it though just needed to throw it close to a receiver. 

Thats what I meant, don't hold the ball! 

[4hzglory]

36 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Weird, so the Rams have everyone hurt is a valid excuse for Stafford and not Goff? Let's not pass over the next Mahomes because Mahomes just come along every draft. I guarantee Kansas City didn't even know they were drafting the next Mahomes. Guess we're just going to be delusional thinking there will be another Mahomes. Might as well just wait until the 6th round and draft another Tom Brady. 

I don't think anyone is saying Goff is the problem.  I think most are saying if Holmes thinks there is a QB in the draft that can be better than Goff in 2024 and on a rookie contract so he can spend the $ elsewhere, he should do it.  If he doesn't, he shouldn't and Goff is just fine.  Goff has played great and took away the absolute need to draft a QB.  But if Holmes believes one of the guys available is the right one, he should definitely take him.

[4hzglory]

37 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

What if Brad Holmes doesn't like the crop of QBs available?

Really, that's what a lot of this conversation comes down to. If the GM thinks there's a can't miss generational talent available, then I doubt anyone would object to him pulling the trigger. But if that person isn't available, Goff has played well enough that I doubt he will draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB.

I think everyone who has brought up the possibility of drafting a QB agrees with this.  

[1984Echoes]

53 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

... In part because Goff has been playing at a pretty high level of late on a non-McVey coached team. Of course, a lot of that is a mix higher level of talent and better coaching that the Lions have had during this part of the season. But nonetheless, it does suggest that it isn't just McVey who can unlock Goff's talent and abilities.

 

It takes a village...

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

To the extent that anyone is glossing over McVey and his role, it feels like now is the first time since Goff arrived in Detroit where people actually *are* glossing over McVey and his role. In part because Goff has been playing at a pretty high level of late on a non-McVey coached team.

Of course, a lot of that is a mix higher level of talent and better coaching that the Lions have had during this part of the season. But nonetheless, it does suggest that it isnt just McVey who can unlock Goff's talent and abilities.

McVey never unlocked his full talent and abilities.  He’d still be there if that was the case.   The Rams saw an opportunity to upgrade at QB and made the move for Stafford.    My point is that using Goff stats from those early Rams days and comparing them to Stafford’s numbers with the Lions undervalues the impact of McVey and staff during that time.   They had a lot to do with Goff’s success.   

[Motown Bombers]

So does McVay have a lot to do with Goff's success now? What about Stafford having the lowest QB rating since 2014? 

[sagnam]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Weird, so the Rams have everyone hurt is a valid excuse for Stafford and not Goff? Let's not pass over the next Mahomes because Mahomes just come along every draft. I guarantee Kansas City didn't even know they were drafting the next Mahomes. Guess we're just going to be delusional thinking there will be another Mahomes. Might as well just wait until the 6th round and draft another Tom Brady. 

1) the won the Super Bowl.  You conveniently ignored that part.

2) it’s been made clear multiple times that Holmes has to be sure.  Please don’t let my GM be afraid of being wrong.  If he thinks there is a guy at that level then only a moron would pass because of Jared Goff.

 

Try to do better and actually address the points made.  Or just compare Stafford and Goff stats over a curated paired that were very similar.

[sagnam]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

What if Brad Holmes doesn't like the crop of QBs available?

Really, that's what a lot of this conversation comes down to. If the GM thinks there's a can't miss generational talent available, then I doubt anyone would object to him pulling the trigger. But if that person isn't available, Goff has played well enough that I doubt he will draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB.

Then don’t draft a QB.  Hopefully no one is saying draft just anyone.  I think the side are draft a better QB vs keep Goff because he’s good enough.

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, sagnam said:

1) the won the Super Bowl.  You conveniently ignored that part.

2) it’s been made clear multiple times that Holmes has to be sure.  Please don’t let my GM be afraid of being wrong.  If he thinks there is a guy at that level then only a moron would pass because of Jared Goff.

 

Try to do better and actually address the points made.  Or just compare Stafford and Goff stats over a curated paired that were very similar.

It's weird because it gets dismissed when it's brought up that Goff went to a Super Bowl as well. No one addresses Stafford's decline this year. Even though he wasn't performing well when Kupp and Robinson were healthy and I cannot imagine the Rams were any worse than the Lions teams he played on. The qualifiers work for Stafford but not for Goff. 

It's been clear that the comparison I have been doing between Goff and Stafford were in their career trajectories. Try to do better and actually address the points made. 

My point is a GM would be delusional if he thinks a QB prospect is Mahomes since one hasn't come around since and one never existed before. The same GM who drafted Mahomes also drafted Baker Mayfield over Josh Allen. It was part good evaluation and part luck.

[KL2]

8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

It's been clear that the comparison I have been doing between Goff and Stafford were in their career trajectories. Try to do better and actually address the points made. 

 

Bull

[4hzglory]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's weird because it gets dismissed when it's brought up that Goff went to a Super Bowl as well. No one addresses Stafford's decline this year. Even though he wasn't performing well when Kupp and Robinson were healthy and I cannot imagine the Rams were any worse than the Lions teams he played on.

Stafford was dealing with an injury all preseason and supposedly during the season.   

 

But again, it isn't whether Goff has been good.  He has been.   It is if Holmes thinks there is a QB that is likely to give the team a better chance to win for 2024 on a rookie contract or not.  If he does, he better take him.  If he doesn't, he better not waste a pick on one.

[Motown Bombers]

20 hours ago, KL2 said:

Bull

Go **** off

Edited December 16, 2022 by MotownWebGuy
Inappropriate language, response

[Hongbit]

I think we are all burying the lede in this comparison of Goff and Stafford.   Goff was horrible most of last year and at times early this season playing behind an injured OL.  He’s been a stud this year as his blockers have gotten healthy and improved.  Stafford won the SB behind a dominant OL last year.   Retirements and injuries this year has him behind trash and the entire team has gone down the tubes.   There are one or two anomalies in the league but by and large most of the QB’s will go as far as their protection will take them. 

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

McVey never unlocked his full talent and abilities.  He’d still be there if that was the case.   The Rams saw an opportunity to upgrade at QB and made the move for Stafford.    My point is that using Goff stats from those early Rams days and comparing them to Stafford’s numbers with the Lions undervalues the impact of McVey and staff during that time.   They had a lot to do with Goff’s success.   

Goff succeeding now sort of dispels that theory, the narrative that McVay is the reason for Goff's success. It's bunk.

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

Stafford was dealing with an injury all preseason and supposedly during the season.   

 

But again, it isn't whether Goff has been good.  He has been.   It is if Holmes thinks there is a QB that is likely to give the team a better chance to win for 2024 on a rookie contract or not.  If he does, he better take him.  If he doesn't, he better not waste a pick on one.

I've never said the Lions should or shouldn't draft a QB. I'm saying there are reasons to believe Goff can be the future QB. You can say the same thing with about 90% of the QBs in the league. I also wouldn't draft a QB because of the rookie contract. if they are good they need to get paid eventually. 

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, NYLion said:

Goff succeeding now sort of dispels that theory, the narrative that McVay is the reason for Goff's success. It's bunk.

I looked it up and Ben Johnson or Dan Campbell have never appeared to work for McVay at any point. Weird. 

[Hongbit]

1 minute ago, NYLion said:

Goff succeeding now sort of dispels that theory, the narrative that McVay is the reason for Goff's success. It's bunk.

How?      Maybe if I said Goff was trash at the Rams but I never said that.  He was good in LA but he benefited greatly from SMV’s new offense which played a big part in his robust stats.   

[4hzglory]

Just now, NYLion said:

Goff succeeding now sort of dispels that theory, the narrative that McVay is the reason for Goff's success. It's bunk.

Not necessarily.  McVay may have put a younger Goff in position to succeed, but then pushed him/demanded more from him than he was able to develop into and so Goff didn't perform as well.

We are definitely seeing what coaching that discovers and builds around what players can do does for a team as well as those individual players success.  The more talent they have at all positions, the more ways they can win.  Certain positions are harder to find improvements on than others, whether it be in the draft or the cost in free agency.  Holmes has done a great job in evaluating players in the draft and I fully trust him to make that decision.

And while I 100% agree that Holmes wanted Goff in the Stafford trade, in no way do I think he wouldn't pick a QB if he thought that QB gave the team the best chance to win in 2024.  If he doesn't, he will wait until he finds that player.