KL2 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: Jared Goff is only successful because of McVay, wait no, Jared Goff is only successful because of Ben Johnson. Motown: it's stupid to draft a qb goff is great throwing to wr look at all these stats Also Motown: we should give up cash and picks to add to our wide receiver core. They need an upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: and yards in the air *down* the field doesn't capture it all either. Some of the throws that require the most arm strength and accuracy are across the field, where you you don't have the luxury of being able to put a lot of air under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, KL2 said: Motown: it's stupid to draft a qb goff is great throwing to wr look at all these stats Also Motown: we should give up cash and picks to add to our wide receiver core. They need an upgrade He is great now, imagine how much greater he would be with even better receivers. Also, it's not adding it's replacing Chark. They would still need to spend cash to replace Chark. I'm also not the only one who supported trading for Higgins but you have a weird obsession with me. I'm just not into you. Edited February 25, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 When the Eagles drafted Hurts, they were called stupid by a lot of people because Carson Wentz had just put up career numbers. The Lions know better than any of us whether Goff’s 2022 numbers are an expectation of things to come or an anomaly. I hope they are a sign of things to come and we don’t need another QB for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: When the Eagles drafted Hurts, they were called stupid by a lot of people because Carson Wentz had just put up career numbers. The Lions know better than any of us whether Goff’s 2022 numbers are an expectation of things to come or an anomaly. I hope they are a sign of things to come and we don’t need another QB for a long time. exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said: When the Eagles drafted Hurts, they were called stupid by a lot of people because Carson Wentz had just put up career numbers. The Lions know better than any of us whether Goff’s 2022 numbers are an expectation of things to come or an anomaly. I hope they are a sign of things to come and we don’t need another QB for a long time. Wentz, unlike Goff, has never recaptured his early form. This comparison would be more to the Rams giving up on Goff. Instead of going with a 2nd round QB they traded for Stafford. I also believe the intention with Hurts was to make him into a Taysom Hill type and they lucked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Ironically enough, the Lions could have used the same logic with Stafford and traded him when he was putting up middling numbers and drafted the next hot QB like Goff or Wentz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 perhaps the eagles saw the evolution of the qb position and how a mobile qb could open up the offense? i dont know, but that seems to be the way the league is going. which doesnt mean you cant win with a statue at qb (see brady, tom), but i think its undeniable that a mobile qb opens up different things for your offense and makes it harder to play against. college isnt a great comparable to the pros, but michigan's offense this year is just such an example. again, not a reason to move on from goff, nor does it say goff isnt capable of winning, but just that the leahue may be changing and the next generation of qbs might be different than the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Here's Stafford after his big 2011 season but before Goff and Wentz were drafted. Stafford only had one more year on his contract. You can draft Goff or Wentz and sit him for one season. Think of all the cap savings. It's going to take the largest contract in history to keep Stafford and you can have Goff or Wentz on a rookie contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, buddha said: perhaps the eagles saw the evolution of the qb position and how a mobile qb could open up the offense? i dont know, but that seems to be the way the league is going. which doesnt mean you cant win with a statue at qb (see brady, tom), but i think its undeniable that a mobile qb opens up different things for your offense and makes it harder to play against. college isnt a great comparable to the pros, but michigan's offense this year is just such an example. again, not a reason to move on from goff, nor does it say goff isnt capable of winning, but just that the leahue may be changing and the next generation of qbs might be different than the last. Wentz had a bit of an injury history and there seemed to be issues between Wentz and Peterson. I think there was more than the Eagles just knew Hurts was going to be a better QB and they are going to draft and replace a QB only one year after signing Wentz to a monster contract that they couldn't easily get out of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 What's really bizarre is the time to draft a QB was 2021 when one was sitting there and/or using your resources to go higher in the draft, not after your 28 year old QB just earned his third trip to the Pro Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Wentz had a bit of an injury history and there seemed to be issues between Wentz and Peterson. I think there was more than the Eagles just knew Hurts was going to be a better QB and they are going to draft and replace a QB only one year after signing Wentz to a monster contract that they couldn't easily get out of. wentz has also turned about to be a clubhouse cancer, so that could have played a role in it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: wentz has also turned about to be a clubhouse cancer, so that could have played a role in it too. I think off the field issues had more to do with it than on field. It also seems Goff and McVay had issues but it doesn't appear that Goff is a clubhouse cancer the same way Wentz is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 I spend some time reading the Rams forum and I get the sense Goff is still well liked there. Lot of Rams fans pulling for the Lions to make the playoffs. Now that the Rams are falling apart, you get the sense they are questioning the trade. One think I saw them say is that they weren't hitting on their late draft picks like they were prior to the Stafford trade making it easier to trade 1st round picks. I wonder what changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Wentz had a bit of an injury history and there seemed to be issues between Wentz and Peterson. I think there was more than the Eagles just knew Hurts was going to be a better QB and they are going to draft and replace a QB only one year after signing Wentz to a monster contract that they couldn't easily get out of. I agree with this. The comparison is far from perfect. Goff and Wentz will never escape the comparisons though beings that they went #1 and #2, and their career paths to some point have been kind of strikingly similar... I will say for the sake of comparing 2019 Wentz to 2022 Goff, Wentz finished 5th in Comeback Player of the Year voting in 2019. Goff finished 6th this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I think off the field issues had more to do with it than on field. It also seems Goff and McVay had issues but it doesn't appear that Goff is a clubhouse cancer the same way Wentz is. goff seems like a really good guy and people like him. they say he's sensitive and has some confidence issues, which is another reason why i dont think they'll draft a qb early. i wouldnt be surprised to see them take one late. just to hold a clipboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 McVay is a prick. I think it was pretty widely known even before the trade that he didn't like or believe in Goff, based largely off of a postseason where Goff was playing with a broken and dislocated thumb on his throwing hand. That's not going to be a workable dynamic between HC and QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: I agree with this. The comparison is far from perfect. Goff and Wentz will never escape the comparisons though beings that they went #1 and #2, and their career paths to some point have been kind of strikingly similar... I will say for the sake of comparing 2019 Wentz to 2022 Goff, Wentz finished 5th in Comeback Player of the Year voting in 2019. Goff finished 6th this year. The funny thing is Wentz was statistically worse in 2019 but he played a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Chark was on a prove it deal. He didn’t prove it. He didn’t disprove it, but he didn’t prove it. As a result he’s not likely to get a mega deal. If Holmes could get him for two years, just one guaranteed, at or slightly above his $10 million salary for last year, it would be nice to see him pick up where he left off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I think off the field issues had more to do with it than on field. It also seems Goff and McVay had issues but it doesn't appear that Goff is a clubhouse cancer the same way Wentz is. Nobody really says a bad word about Goff, other than that he missed a few deep throws and he gets flustered under pressure. McVay is another story. Lets the Rams sign Goff to a massive contract, runs him out of town at great cost to save his own reputation, rides the coattails of high price acquisitions Stafford and Von Miller to the Super Bowl win, then when it all falls apart he considered running away from it all. That trade really exposed everyone’s character — Stafford, Goff, and McVay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Jason_R said: Chark was on a prove it deal. He didn’t prove it. He didn’t disprove it, but he didn’t prove it. As a result he’s not likely to get a mega deal. If Holmes could get him for two years, just one guaranteed, at or slightly above his $10 million salary for last year, it would be nice to see him pick up where he left off. I agree with everything you said, but I think he may benefit from the market. There are not a lot of options out there at WR this offseason, he's probably a top three option with Jakobi Meyers and Robert Woods, and he's only 26. I could see him being the Christian Kirk of this offseason and getting a large three or four-year contract from the Bears or Texans that isn't necessarily a smart move for an injury prone guy. I'm not sure I would want to do anything longer than a year or two unless there were very favorable outs for when we need to start signing the 2021 draft to long-term deals, and I'm not sure Chark would want to do another short-term deal if the market has longer options out there. The more injuries he sustains on short deals, the less he will make on future deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, buddha said: perhaps the eagles saw the evolution of the qb position and how a mobile qb could open up the offense? i dont know, but that seems to be the way the league is going I think the league swings back and forth on this through time. I remember when a 'scrambler' like Fran Tarkington was all the rage and the future of football. Sure, mobile QBs are great until a few teams get burned by making huge commitments to guys who can't stay on the field or get old fast when they lose their legs and then rest get gun shy about QBs that run around again. Nothing new in this. Edited February 25, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: What's really bizarre is the time to draft a QB was 2021 when one was sitting there and/or using your resources to go higher in the draft, not after your 28 year old QB just earned his third trip to the Pro Bowl. Yup. You could have had Tua, could still have traded Stafford for a bunch of high picks to charge up the '22 draft, and all you would be out was Odukah. Hard to say anyone would have passed on that alternative future looking back from today's view. C'est la vie. Edited February 25, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think the league swings back and forth on this through time. I remember when a 'scrambler' like Fran Tarkington was all the rage and the future of football. Sure, mobile QBs are great until a few teams get burned by making huge commitments to guys who can't stay on the field or get old fast when they lose their legs and then rest get gun shy about QBs that run around again. Nothing new in this. this is very different from tarkenton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: I agree with everything you said, but I think he may benefit from the market. There are not a lot of options out there at WR this offseason, he's probably a top three option with Jakobi Meyers and Robert Woods, and he's only 26. I could see him being the Christian Kirk of this offseason and getting a large three or four-year contract from the Bears or Texans that isn't necessarily a smart move for an injury prone guy. I'm not sure I would want to do anything longer than a year or two unless there were very favorable outs for when we need to start signing the 2021 draft to long-term deals, and I'm not sure Chark would want to do another short-term deal if the market has longer options out there. The more injuries he sustains on short deals, the less he will make on future deals. Yeah, it only takes one team to make him a massive offer. Will someone do it on the basis of three ~100 yard games in the last third of the season? Maybe. If not his best option might be to come back to Detroit where he was getting his timing down with Goff and where the offense is putting up a lot of yards. He could put up the numbers to justify a big deal with another team after Detroit spends its WR money on ASB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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