MichiganCardinal Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 52 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: What about a DE who can play all along the line and specifically the 3-technique on passing downs? I think both Murphy and Wilson will be capable of playing all along the line given situational game-planning, so, especially on passing downs, you could have a Houston-Wilson-McNeil-Hutch line (for example). I think they have high hopes that Paschal will fill that role this fall, but I don't think his presence will exclude them from taking Wilson or Murphy at 6 if that's the best player on their board. I also think there are conceivable packages where McNeil, Paschal, and Murphy/Wilson are all on the field at the same time. Quote
MichiganCardinal Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 A pass-rushing, game-wrecking presence on the interior defensive line is one of the most rare athletes in all of sports. In the NFL today, I think there is one truly elite DT (Aaron Donald), and about five very good DTs (Quinnen Williams, Chris Jones, Cam Heyward, a couple others). If you have one, you've struck gold in a way that can make your entire defensive unit substantially better... With that said (and I might get some flak here), I think it's a bit of a luxury position. The Bengals have a good defense, without that premier player. Likewise for the Bills. With that said, if you have two very good or elite edge rushers on either side, you do not need that IDL presence because it makes your IDL's job much, much easier. You get Anderson, and you don't have to worry about Hutch being the most double teamed edge rusher in the league anymore. You can tell those two to go out there and have fun meeting at the QB, while you tell Paschal and McNeill to just plug their holes and know that linebackers will be there in support as needed. I think the pocket would collapse so frequently that you won't need a game wrecking presence on the inside, because the play will be coming to them. Quote
buddha Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 4 hours ago, Jason_R said: Of course this whole conversation assumes four QBs will be taken ahead of the Lions’ pick at six. I suppose it’s not out of the question, but I doubt any team desperate for a QB thinks Seattle or Detroit is competing with them for the chance to roll the dice on Richardson. I think the real question is whether Chicago will take Anderson/Carter at 1 or will they trade back with Indy to 4 and take whichever of the two that Arizona doesn’t pick. chicago will trade back 100%. Quote
Jason_R Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 4 hours ago, buddha said: chicago will trade back 100%. I’m sure they want to and will probably be able to. But if they don’t want to trade themselves out of one of the two blue-chip defensive prospects, that limits their trade pool. Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28, 2023 Author Posted February 28, 2023 10 hours ago, buddha said: chicago will trade back 100%. You don't think they are drafting Bryce Young and trading Justin Fields? Fields isn't Ryan Poles nor Matt Eberflus' QB so the new regime may want their own guy and may want to reset the clock on the rookie contract. Quote
RedRamage Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 17 hours ago, KL2 said: By definition something not true is a lie. No, that's incorrect. The definition of not true is NOT a lie. I don't want to go too far down a rabbit hole here in a sports forum, but there are many examples of an incorrect thing being said that isn't a lie. For example... remember the blue and black or white and gold dress? Many people thought it was white and gold. To them it looked white and gold. Was it a lie for them to say it's white and gold? Quote It's his job to verify everything even from a trustworthy sources. Reporting 101 there. This part I agree 100% with, especially when we're talking about potentially influencing multi-million dollar transactions. What we don't know is how much verifying he did or didn't do. One would hope that he did his due diligence, but the fact that we don't have very many (if any) other sources citing these potentially issues other than those repeating what he said, it does call in to question the validity of his statement. Quote
NYLion Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 12 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: A pass-rushing, game-wrecking presence on the interior defensive line is one of the most rare athletes in all of sports. In the NFL today, I think there is one truly elite DT (Aaron Donald), and about five very good DTs (Quinnen Williams, Chris Jones, Cam Heyward, a couple others). If you have one, you've struck gold in a way that can make your entire defensive unit substantially better... With that said (and I might get some flak here), I think it's a bit of a luxury position. The Bengals have a good defense, without that premier player. Likewise for the Bills. With that said, if you have two very good or elite edge rushers on either side, you do not need that IDL presence because it makes your IDL's job much, much easier. You get Anderson, and you don't have to worry about Hutch being the most double teamed edge rusher in the league anymore. You can tell those two to go out there and have fun meeting at the QB, while you tell Paschal and McNeill to just plug their holes and know that linebackers will be there in support as needed. I think the pocket would collapse so frequently that you won't need a game wrecking presence on the inside, because the play will be coming to them. Will Anderson (pun intended) even be a better pass rusher than Houston? He obviously has the pedigree and Houston could be a fluke for all we know but it's hard to ignore that Houston had a historically good rookie season. Not saying that they shouldn't take Anderson if he's there, just more pointing out the severe lack of Houston mention in your post. Quote
RandyMarsh Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Theres pictures out there from commercials they did together and Kyler Murray actually appeared taller than Bryce Young standing next to him, not to mention Murray is built like a tank and Young a bean pole. Maybe Young has grown since that shoot but if not I just don't see how a team could take him in the top 5 let alone trading up picks to do so. That's way too big of a risk for me. Edited February 28, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote
MichiganCardinal Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, NYLion said: Will Anderson (pun intended) even be a better pass rusher than Houston? He obviously has the pedigree and Houston could be a fluke for all we know but it's hard to ignore that Houston had a historically good rookie season. Not saying that they shouldn't take Anderson if he's there, just more pointing out the severe lack of Houston mention in your post. Yes I think he will be. I think Houston taking the league by storm is much more likely to be something of an anomaly long-term than it is to become the norm. When Harris went down with an injury, teams began game planning around Hutch being the only strong pass rush presence on the line, and double teamed him consistently. When Houston arrived shot out of a cannon, they weren’t adjusting, and he was winning one-on-one battles while Hutch was taking the attention of the line. I think a regression to less than insane numbers is likely this off-season. He was on pace to break Strahan & Watt’s single season record across a full season. I don’t think that’s sustainable, but I sure hope I’m wrong! On the other hand, Anderson recorded double digit sacks in each of the last two seasons against SEC competition. 17.5 sacks and a Heisman invite in 2021. All while being double teamed. There are no hard and fast rules to defensive formations anyway, and I don’t think drafting Anderson would mean Houston has no future here. If Houston continues to play well enough to be on the field, I wouldn’t foreclose the possibility for all three of them to be on the field at the same time on obvious passing downs. Delay rush one of them from the middle or rush two from one side. Whatever it takes to disrupt the pocket. There are games they would be able to take over. Quote
RandyMarsh Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 I love what Houston brought us but call me skeptical about the performance going forward. Not saying he isn't going to be good but fair or not I will always be skeptical of a late pick like that until they have a bigger sample size. I also wonder how much he benefited from being fresher than his competitors. Quote
NYLion Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 55 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: Yes I think he will be. I think Houston taking the league by storm is much more likely to be something of an anomaly long-term than it is to become the norm. When Harris went down with an injury, teams began game planning around Hutch being the only strong pass rush presence on the line, and double teamed him consistently. When Houston arrived shot out of a cannon, they weren’t adjusting, and he was winning one-on-one battles while Hutch was taking the attention of the line. I think a regression to less than insane numbers is likely this off-season. He was on pace to break Strahan & Watt’s single season record across a full season. I don’t think that’s sustainable, but I sure hope I’m wrong! On the other hand, Anderson recorded double digit sacks in each of the last two seasons against SEC competition. 17.5 sacks and a Heisman invite in 2021. All while being double teamed. There are no hard and fast rules to defensive formations anyway, and I don’t think drafting Anderson would mean Houston has no future here. If Houston continues to play well enough to be on the field, I wouldn’t foreclose the possibility for all three of them to be on the field at the same time on obvious passing downs. Delay rush one of them from the middle or rush two from one side. Whatever it takes to disrupt the pocket. There are games they would be able to take over. Of course he's not going to duplicate what he did last season, he was pacing to be the all time sack leader, but I just think he should be accounted for when talking about key D-Line players for the Lions going into next season. You didn't even give him a mention in your post. Also, while I can understand being skeptical of him, he showed a wide array of pass rush moves that makes me think that he's not a fluke. It shouldn't deter the Lions from taking Anderson if he drops to 6 because BPA but Houston seems to be the real deal. 1 Quote
Motown Bombers Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 I'm not sure Houston is an every down defensive end, but he can certainly be a pass rush specialist and threaten double digit sack totals. Quote
buddha Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 8 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: You don't think they are drafting Bryce Young and trading Justin Fields? Fields isn't Ryan Poles nor Matt Eberflus' QB so the new regime may want their own guy and may want to reset the clock on the rookie contract. i think there's a 1% chance they trade fields. bryce young is 180 pounds soaking wet. not sure how long he'll last. really good qb, though, so i see what youre saying. Quote
1984Echoes Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 PS: The Seahawks are also talking heavily about a QB with their #5 pick. A rare opportunity for them as they haven't picked top 10 in around 10 years or so (I didn't verify... just reading the article...). Everyone is assuming they'll select defense. But if they grab, say Anthony Richardson as the perfect guy to sit behind Geno Smith for two years learning, before he takes over the helm... That bodes particularly well for the Lions. EITHER a top D'lineman drops to us in Anderson or Carter, as well as Murphy and/or Wilson... and Holmes can pick whoever he wants... OR: In a desperate move to grab the last 1st-round/ franchise-level QB on the board (and leapfrog the Raiders looking to do the same), the Panthers trade us the #9, this year's 2nd and 3rd, and next year's 2nd round picks... 😁😁😁 Quote
buddha Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: PS: The Seahawks are also talking heavily about a QB with their #5 pick. A rare opportunity for them as they haven't picked top 10 in around 10 years or so (I didn't verify... just reading the article...). Everyone is assuming they'll select defense. But if they grab, say Anthony Richardson as the perfect guy to sit behind Geno Smith for two years learning, before he takes over the helm... That bodes particularly well for the Lions. EITHER a top D'lineman drops to us in Anderson or Carter, as well as Murphy and/or Wilson... and Holmes can pick whoever he wants... OR: In a desperate move to grab the last 1st-round/ franchise-level QB on the board (and leapfrog the Raiders looking to do the same), the Panthers trade us the #9, this year's 2nd and 3rd, and next year's 2nd round picks... 😁😁😁 ever the optimist... Quote
Motown Bombers Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 It makes a shit ton more sense for Seattle to draft a QB than the Lions. I have no idea why so many more mocks have Detroit taking a QB over Seattle. Quote
RandyMarsh Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) Jim Kosta of 97.1 is still preaching drafting a qb due to Goff being in line for an extension in a couple years. To me that is the dumbest reason to draft a qb. For starters Goff already has a high cap hit and were building a team around him just fine, at most an extension may add what 10 million to the cap?(Im pretty ignorant to the cap so I genuinely don't know) Another reason is you don't have to cross that bridge till the time comes. Yeah we may not be picking 6 again but that doesnt mean we wouldn't be able to draft a qb if we wanted to,it just may take trading up. Finally its not like any of these qbs in this class are viewed as can't miss, every year save for 2022 you get a bunch of similarly viewed or better qbs so no need to press the panic button now. Now if you genuinely believe Goff is going to regress and believe say Stroud, Richardson or Levis are the real deals and will outperform him than sure draft a qb but it seems like most people in the qb camp don't necessarily feel that way. Edited March 1, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote
Motown Bombers Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Jim Kosta of 97.1 is still preaching drafting a qb due to Goff being in line for an extension in a couple years. To me that is the dumbest reason to draft a qb. For starters Goff already has a high cap hit and were building a team around him just fine, at most an extension may add what 10 million to the cap?(Im pretty ignorant to the cap so I genuinely don't know) Another reason is you don't have to cross that bridge till the time comes. Yeah we may not be picking 6 again but that doesnt mean we wouldn't be able to draft a qb if we wanted to,it just may take trading up. Finally its not like any of these qbs in this class are viewed as can't miss, every year save for 2022 you get a bunch of similarly viewed or better qbs so no need to press the panic button now. Now if you genuinely believe Goff is going to regress and believe say Stroud, Richardson or Levis are the real deals and will outperform him than sure draft a qb but it seems like most people in the qb camp don't necessarily feel that way. It depends on how they structure the extension but they could even save cap space in the short term by signing Goff to an extension. They could also save $12 million or there about by restructuring Goff. If your play is draft a QB and then move on from Goff in a year, it takes restructuring off the table. Then you have $30 million in cap space in Goff and another $6-7 million in a 1st round backup QB. If the QB is good, you'll need to extend him typically after year three like the Rams did with Goff. You get about two years of cap savings. It's so stupid. Quote
Shinzaki Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 I think Hooker will be there in the 3rd. But I like the idea of drafting him even if he is eligible to collect Social Security when camp opens 1 Quote
Motown Bombers Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 Hendon Hooker will be about 26 or 27 by the time he is ready to become a starter. Quote
1984Echoes Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Hendon Hooker will be about 26 or 27 by the time he is ready to become a starter. Don't give a shit. Height of his prime athletic years, and good for another 5-6 years or so. PERFECT as a backup to Goff. Couldn't get any better than that. Which is why I want the Panthers to panic and give us extra 2nds and 3rds... And we can use one of them (or ours) on Hooker. Quote
Hongbit Posted March 1, 2023 Posted March 1, 2023 I’m most interested to see how Noah Sewell does this week. I think there’s a real possibility on him becoming a Lion in the 2nd round. Quote
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