2023 NFL Draft Thread

[RandyMarsh]

Just now, buddha said:

too soon randy, too soon.  😞

lol sorry in the midst of my Quentin Johnson mancrush moment so had to point it out. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

So we're drafting DJ Turner at some point right?

[Hongbit]

I’m not sure any of the combine numbers will make a real difference for who the Lions select.  They have proven to be more about the tape and on field performance than the workout numbers.  

What it does do for them is set a market value and where they can expect to pick some of the guys they really like.   A average combine for a player they like probably helps them a ton.  I bet Brad and Co. high five each other when a guy they like on tape turns in a slow time.  

Edited March 3, 2023 by Hongbit

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Apparently former GM Rick Spielman was in the Lions booth today for the combine. I wonder if he's a front office advisor given that his brother is in the front office.

[RandyMarsh]

I think alot of teams are putting less stock in combine numbers, atleast the traditional ones namely 40 times. Sure they still care but I think they use it more as a confirmation to what they saw on film and other things they have access to like GPS. I look at Tariq Woolen last year who ran a blazing 4.24 yet still lasted to the 5th round. Granted that may have been due to playing for a smaller school but still I think in years past teams would've jumped on him earlier just based off that.

Another example is DK Metcalf(ironically 2 Seahawk picks) who dominated the combine yet lasted till the end of the 2nd. I think back to previous combine warriors like Heyward-Bey who went 8th overall based largely on his 40 time and it makes me think times have changed a bit. 

[Motown Bombers]

I would counter that Travon Walker rose in the draft due to his combine workout. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Christian Gonzalez ran a 4.44 and 4.38. He's having a solid combine for himself.

[Hongbit]

6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I think alot of teams are putting less stock in combine numbers, atleast the traditional ones namely 40 times. Sure they still care but I think they use it more as a confirmation to what they saw on film and other things they have access to like GPS. I look at Tariq Woolen last year who ran a blazing 4.24 yet still lasted to the 5th round. Granted that may have been due to playing for a smaller school but still I think in years past teams would've jumped on him earlier just based off that.

Another example is DK Metcalf(ironically 2 Seahawk picks) who dominated the combine yet lasted till the end of the 2nd. I think back to previous combine warriors like Heyward-Bey who went 8th overall based largely on his 40 time and it makes me think times have changed a bit. 

Metcalf is probably a bad example.  His 40 was off the charts but the 3 cone time was the worst among all WR.  There were serious questions about his agility and if he just had straight line speed.   He was also coming off injury.  

[RandyMarsh]

Just now, Hongbit said:

Metcalf is probably a bad example.  His 40 was off the charts but the 3 cone time was the worst among all WR.  There were serious questions about his agility and if he just had straight line speed.   He was also coming off injury.  

True, I should've clarified that I was talking more about 40 time since in common circles that seems to be what draws the most attention.  Also I didn't mean to imply that teams don't put any stock into the combine any more I just feel that it doesn't mean as much to them as it used to. I guess I have no way to confirm that though but just hearing what guys like Rick Spielman have said along with Dan Holmes makes me think that. I just get the idea that most teams in most situations use it more as a confirmation to what they saw on tape vs. changing their board based off combine results. 

[Jason_R]

15 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Christian Gonzalez ran a 4.44 and 4.38. He's having a solid combine for himself.

Fast for a guy that big. 

He was on Moving the Chains last night, before they had Witherspoon on. Gonzalez came off very polished when they asked him about various techniques. Witherspoon came to football later in life and talked about toughness. If they pick one of them at six I hope it is Gonzalez.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

10 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Fast for a guy that big. 

He was on Moving the Chains last night, before they had Witherspoon on. Gonzalez came off very polished when they asked him about various techniques. Witherspoon came to football later in life and talked about toughness. If they pick one of them at six I hope it is Gonzalez.  

I've been highest on Joey Porter Jr. throughout this process partly because he's the guy I've watched play the most and as well because of his lengthy body type. But watching Gonzalez at the combine and the YouTube clips I have watched he has really impressed. The guy is more than just fast and athletic too. He seems to have really good ball and cover skills from what I'm reading in scouting reports and seeing on tape too.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Nolan Smith, Edge/OLB from Georgia, ran a 4.44. He might be a day 2 guy to watch for with the Lions second round pick if they don't go with a Tyree Wilson or Myles Murphy type player in the 1st.

[Jason_R]

11 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I've been highest on Joey Porter Jr. throughout this process partly because he's the guy I've watched play the most and as well because of his lengthy body type. But watching Gonzalez at the combine and the YouTube clips I have watched he has really impressed. The guy is more than just fast and athletic too. He seems to have really good ball and cover skills from what I'm reading in scouting reports and seeing on tape too.

Pat Kirwan used to be a coach and front office guy. He likes to ask the combine guys softball questions about scheme, then if they give a good answer, he digs deeper. He had Gonzalez talking about all the coverages, when Oregon ran what against who, and Gonzalez was eating it all up. Kirwan never got to those questions with Witherspoon. 

Also, Gonzalez talked about his athletic family. The guy is a thoroughbred and he knows it. Has that swagger that you want a CB to have, but you don't have to worry he's going to go all Pacman Jones on you. If they took him at 6 I wouldn't be upset. 

[RandyMarsh]

 

[Hongbit]

 

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Also, Gonzalez talked about his athletic family. The guy is a thoroughbred and he knows it. Has that swagger that you want a CB to have, but you don't have to worry he's going to go all Pacman Jones on you. If they took him at 6 I wouldn't be upset. 

I say we pass on him because he’s David Blough’s brother in law.    

[Motown Bombers]

18 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

 

He weighs more than I thought he would.

[RandyMarsh]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

He weighs more than I thought he would.

Same. Not that they are experts or anything but I see alot of folks in the comments of that tweet suggesting Bryce just packed on as much weight as he could just for the weigh in and it probably isn't what his true playing weight is and will be.

I could see that, especially since he chose not to run the 40, he's probably feeling sluggish as hell with the extra weight. 

[MichiganCardinal]

2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Pat Kirwan used to be a coach and front office guy. He likes to ask the combine guys softball questions about scheme, then if they give a good answer, he digs deeper. He had Gonzalez talking about all the coverages, when Oregon ran what against who, and Gonzalez was eating it all up. Kirwan never got to those questions with Witherspoon. 

Also, Gonzalez talked about his athletic family. The guy is a thoroughbred and he knows it. Has that swagger that you want a CB to have, but you don't have to worry he's going to go all Pacman Jones on you. If they took him at 6 I wouldn't be upset. 

Does this mean he's got that DOG? As a wise man once told me, "it's all DOG around this mug"

[Stanley70]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Nolan Smith, Edge/OLB from Georgia, ran a 4.44. He might be a day 2 guy to watch for with the Lions second round pick if they don't go with a Tyree Wilson or Myles Murphy type player in the 1st.

I don't think they are taking a DE in this draft, unless Wilson or Anderson drop to them and they just have them rated way above the rest of the board. 

 

[MichiganCardinal]

FWIW, my known favorite draft guru Charlie Campbell published this on Jalen Carter yesterday. Halfway through is a tidbit from an unnamed source that I bolded, that you have to think could be a Lions scout or personnel. Could be wrong, it's ambiguous enough.

Quote

How Teams Currently View the Jalen Carter Situation

Updated March 3, 2023

By Charlie Campbell

The NFL world was rocked Wednesday when the arrest warrants were issued for Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter. Entering the combine, Carter was a consensus top-five pick who was in the running to be the first non-quarterback drafted. However, the arrest for street racing that was part of a car accident that killed a teammate, a Georgia staffer, and injured two other people has put Carter's draft stock in limbo as teams sought clarity on the situation. I spoke with some team sources to gauge where they see the situation with Carter right now.

Team sources saw this arrest as potentially causing them to drop Carter from their draft boards all the way to it being a near non-factor. It all comes down to his role and what he did that night.  

Police reports say that Carter left the scene and then returned a few hours later. Sources say that if Carter saw or knew about the accident and left the scene while his teammate had just died, a staffer was dying, and two people were injured, that would lead to him dropping him from their board. If Carter drove away because he lost track of them during their race and did not know there was an accident, then they feel he probably would not be significantly hurt by a reckless driving and speeding incident.  

A source from a team that is picking high in the first round and is at a team that is very strict on character said Carter is almost off their board regardless of the result of the incident. Carter already had make-up concerns, so they had worries about his character and work ethic. That source said he doesn't think their team will want to deal with Carter's lack of work ethic and poor decision-making. 

Another factor that hurts Carter is the pace of the legal process. Teams would like to have clarity about the legal ramifications before the draft. With only eight weeks until the draft, the legal proceedings could still be playing out for Carter come draft day.  

Lastly, teams are questioning more if the make-up issues and work ethic are seen on the field in a lack of production. Carter was bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic than his opponents, yet only produced three sacks in each of the past two seasons. Carter never had the kind of production of other top defensive tackle prospects like Quinnen Williams, Aaron Donald, or Ndamukong Suh, all of whom had double digit-sack seasons in college. So, teams are wondering if Carter's make-up problems translates to him being more of a disruptor than a producer as a player. 

Thus, Carter's draft stock is in limbo right now. The big question is if he knew of the accident and left his friends there to suffer and die, or if he didn't know what happened. If Carter has a truthful and accurate answer that he didn't know, he still could be a high first-round pick next month. 

 

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Pat Kirwan used to be a coach and front office guy. He likes to ask the combine guys softball questions about scheme, then if they give a good answer, he digs deeper. He had Gonzalez talking about all the coverages, when Oregon ran what against who, and Gonzalez was eating it all up. Kirwan never got to those questions with Witherspoon. 

Also, Gonzalez talked about his athletic family. The guy is a thoroughbred and he knows it. Has that swagger that you want a CB to have, but you don't have to worry he's going to go all Pacman Jones on you. If they took him at 6 I wouldn't be upset. 

That's the guy on top of my CB board...

[MichiganCardinal]

Nothing says franchise QB like mayonnaise in the coffee and lactose intolerance discrimination. Happy Combine!

 

[KL2]

16 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Nothing says franchise QB like mayonnaise in the coffee and lactose intolerance discrimination. Happy Combine!

 

Plus you can't use him in those milk mustache ads

[RandyMarsh]

15 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Nothing says franchise QB like mayonnaise in the coffee and lactose intolerance discrimination. Happy Combine!

 

That is legit one of the weirdest things I have ever heard. In a similar vein  I guess the wrestler The Undertaker used to have this weird phobia of cucumbers so its not the first time I heard of something like this. But I dont think he screamed in fear at the sight of them though. 

[KL2]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

That is legit one of the weirdest things I have ever heard. In a similar vein  I guess the wrestler The Undertaker used to have this weird phobia of cucumbers so its not the first time I heard of something like this. But I dont think he screamed in fear at the sight of them though.