Sports_Freak Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 48 minutes ago, KL2 said: Wow Talk about giving him every benefit of thr doubt. Impressive Well, it's not for a message board or social media to decide if the Lions should draft him or not. What do we actually know? I'm not ready to call the kid a bust even before the draft. Let Holmes do his job, I kinda agree with his judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Kirby Smart has defended Carter in public. Will college coaches talk to pro coaches about their players or is that considered some kind of unwritten rule violation? Smart has to be the person whose read Campbell (and thus indirectly Holmes) would most want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) On 3/24/2023 at 6:10 PM, Jason_R said: https://www.motownlions.com/2023/03/24/mounting-character-concerns-mean-detroit-lions-pass-on-jalen-carter-for-now-in-mock-draft/ Birkett is mocking Skoronski to Detroit at 6. I’ve seen him as a dark horse candidate at 6 for a while. Maybe it is a bit of a luxury to pick a guard at 6, but he will play in the league at a high level for a decade. And with health questions for Ragnow and Vaitai, maybe he would be less of a luxury than we expect now. That's one of the few picks that I'd absolutely hate at 6. A guy that likely doesn't start for a year or two and has smallish arms which could very well make him a guard long term. Absolute worst case scenario for me. I guess taking a TE at 6 would be the only thing that would be worse. The Lions got three guards that were long time starters in the league in Glasgow, Warford and now Jackson in the 3rd round. There will be plenty available in the 2nd or 3rd to take. #6 should be about upside and while Skoronski has a pretty high floor, you need more potential impact at 6. Edited March 27, 2023 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, NYLion said: That's one of the few picks that I'd absolutely hate at 6. A guy that likely doesn't start for a year or two and has smallish arms which could very well make him a guard long term. Absolute worst case scenario for me. I guess taking a TE at 6 would be the only thing that would be worse. I get the impression Skoronski is only projected so high because it's habit for the top OT to go in the top half of the 1st round, but it doesn't make much sense to project him top ten and then turn around and say he'll have to move to guard. The correct logic would be that if you don't have anyone you can project to stay at OT in this draft, you don't have a top 10 O-Line pick. Now maybe the evaluators who don't think he can stay at tackle are just all wet, but the mocks that have him in the top ten then *also* project he'll go to guard are illogical - both shouldn't be true. Edited March 27, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: I get the impression Skoronski is only projected so high because it's habit for the top OT to go in the top half of the 1st round, but it doesn't make much sense to project him top ten and then turn around and say he'll have to move to guard. The correct logic would be that if you don't have anyone you can project to stay at OT in this draft, you don't have a top 10 O-Line pick. Now maybe the evaluators who don't think he can stay at tackle are just all wet, but the mocks that have him in the top ten then *also* project he'll go to guard are illogical - both shouldn't be true. He’s projected so high because his closest comp is his former teammate Rashawn Slater who became a Pro Bowl left tackle as a rookie. He’s being mocked to Detroit now by two beat writers (Birkett and Rogers) because the defensive talent question has been unclear after Anderson and Carter, and is especially murky with Carter’s red flags. Again, I don’t love it at 6, but I don’t hate it and would understand it. Would still rather them trade back, and if they can’t would rather see Gonzalez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 the amount of deliberate disinformation is hard to quantify as well; 6 seems likely to be the first inflection point in the draft, if Anderson, Carter and the 3 top QBs are gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jason_R said: He’s projected so high because his closest comp is his former teammate Rashawn Slater who became a Pro Bowl left tackle as a rookie. right - he has to really be an NFL OT to justify the pick. It reminds me a bit of last year's baseball draft - everyone was drooling over the good hitting shortstops, but then projecting they wouldn't stay there. If they can't stay there then you have to rank the bat against other 3B or whatever. The value added was getting the bat at *that* position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: I get the impression Skoronski is only projected so high because it's habit for the top OT to go in the top half of the 1st round, but it doesn't make much sense to project him top ten and then turn around and say he'll have to move to guard. The correct logic would be that if you don't have anyone you can project to stay at OT in this draft, you don't have a top 10 O-Line pick. Now maybe the evaluators who don't think he can stay at tackle are just all wet, but the mocks that have him in the top ten then *also* project he'll go to guard are illogical - both shouldn't be true. I think that's why you see a lot of scouts split on him and why a guy like Paris Johnson who might be an inferior prospect but is a surefire tackle is starting to get some top 10 mention. Skoronski's length is a real concern in terms of projecting him to tackle so it's a hard sell for GMs to lock him in at top 10 if he can't play tackle long term. The question for the Lions is if they project him to slide over to tackle to replace Decker in 2 years then it might be worth it but if he's a Jackson or VaiTai replacement then... not so much with Jackson leaving because they don't want to pay a guard top money being even more reason to pass on Skoronski at 6 if that's the role they seem him in long term. Edited March 27, 2023 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: right - he has to really be an NFL OT to justify the pick. It reminds me a bit of last year's baseball draft - everyone was drooling over the good hitting shortstops, but then projecting they wouldn't stay there. If they can't stay there then you have to rank the bat against other 3B or whatever. The value added was getting the bat at *that* position. Yes, I see your point. The questions for Detroit are, do you project him to become a starting tackle for 8-10 years after Decker’s contract is up, and does this represent “positional value”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 i'd rarher have darnell wright than skoronski. no way i'd take either at 6. take one of the corners instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 This is a pretty weak draft at the top. It’s definitely the reason that some of these outlier names keep getting brought up so early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 I feel like Holme's is doing a great job with having some flexibility (after free agent signings and restructuring) with this draft because I think when you do that it gives you the ability to have someone overpay if you trade down because they don't know what your going to do. They could go in so many different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 13 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Well, it's not for a message board or social media to decide if the Lions should draft him or not. What do we actually know? I'm not ready to call the kid a bust even before the draft. Let Holmes do his job, I kinda agree with his judgment. yeah but you basically threw out every report and made eery excuse for his poor preformance. It was a bit much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 15 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Hearing all of the negatives about Carter is alarming but we're talking big money. Certain factions start rumors that may not be true. He got winded at the combine? He may have been sick. We just don't know the truth. Holmes and Campbell will do their job and feel comfortable with whoever they pick. I could be wrong, but I tend of think that if he were sick that we would have heard about that by now. Obviously that's not 100% certain, but I have to think his camp would be releasing that information. Heck it wouldn't be that hard to turn it into a positive: "We apologize for those who came to see Carter at his pro-day. Unfortunately Carter was suffering from a a bad illness. Many were urging him to not do the workout but Carter insisted, not wanting to let down those who had traveled to see him. He felt he could still provide a good showing but because of his sickness he wasn't able to perform nearly up to his normal standard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 That trade would make me think Holmes was secretly still working for the Rams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 45 minutes ago, KL2 said: yeah but you basically threw out every report and made eery excuse for his poor preformance. It was a bit much. Well, I guess we'll see if the Lions pass on him. I'm sure the Lions FO has much more info on him than the haters on Twitter do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, RedRamage said: I could be wrong, but I tend of think that if he were sick that we would have heard about that by now. Obviously that's not 100% certain, but I have to think his camp would be releasing that information. Heck it wouldn't be that hard to turn it into a positive: "We apologize for those who came to see Carter at his pro-day. Unfortunately Carter was suffering from a a bad illness. Many were urging him to not do the workout but Carter insisted, not wanting to let down those who had traveled to see him. He felt he could still provide a good showing but because of his sickness he wasn't able to perform nearly up to his normal standard." Don’t be surprised if his agent releases a statement saying that he is being treated for depression related to grief about the accident. I am not making a claim that he is or isn’t, just that it wouldn’t surprise me to hear a report like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 I would be surprised if the Lions don’t use one of their 30 pre draft visits on Carter. Bring him to Allen Park and see if Jalen is able to alleviate the concerns face to face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Kirby Smart has defended Carter in public. Will college coaches talk to pro coaches about their players or is that considered some kind of unwritten rule violation? Smart has to be the person whose read Campbell (and thus indirectly Holmes) would most want. Kirby is far too biased. He has a vested interest in Carter getting drafted high. You will never get an honest answer out of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, sagnam said: Kirby is far too biased. He has a vested interest in Carter getting drafted high. You will never get an honest answer out of him. Probably true, but OTOH, if his guys get drafted high and then bust wouldn't that be a bad look for the program also? I guess maybe it's a short term/long term cost thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Biggest problem I have with Carter is the multiple issues. If it was just issue with racing that ended up in a fatal crash, or lying to the police (not sure how accurate that statement is), or having a bad pro day, or he's not dedicated to football. Its not one or two things, its the combined issues. For every Warren Sap or Randy Moss there is a Charles Rodgers. Luckily for the first time being a Lions fan I actually have full faith in our GM. So I am good with whatever the decision is. I actually would be excited if they drafted Carter because I am confident that they think it was just a string of bad luck and we got arguably the best player in the draft at 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, buddha said: i'd rarher have darnell wright than skoronski. no way i'd take either at 6. take one of the corners instead. Would you draft Calijah Kancey at #6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 49 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Would you draft Calijah Kancey at #6? In this draft…absolutely yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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