2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Mr.TaterSalad]

48 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

He wasn’t driving the car.  He was in a totally different vehicle behind the crashed car.  He wasn’t even legally drunk at the time.    He isn’t responsible for anyone’s death.   This whole perception that he must feel guilty and completely shattered for his role in it is crap.   It’s a convenient excuse for people trying to justify why he was fat and out of shape at his workout.  

If the two cars were allegedly drag racing, wasn't he at least adjacently involved to something stupid and reckless being done? Wasn't his drag racing a form on encouraging bad behavior by his friend?

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Jason_R]

22 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The accident happened in January. The combine was a month later. His weight gain happened in just two weeks between the combine and pro day. So wouldn't he have been depressed before the combine? 

He didn’t work out at the combine and wasn’t planning to. Then he got charged and a media circus started around him. 

Is it possible that a 21 year old kid could go through criminal charges and a media circus related to a tragedy he was involved in and be totally unfazed by it? I guess.

But to assume he was totally unfazed by it and it could not have had any possible impact on his state of mind is basically to assume that he is devoid of normal human emotions. That he’s a monster or an animal. I don’t think that’s a fair assumption to make. But lots of people are making it. 

[Jason_R]

21 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If the two cars were allegedly drag racing, wasn't he at least adjacently involved to something stupid and reckless being done? Wasn't his drag racing a form on encouraging bad behavior by his friend?

Hey, we are all adjacent to stupidity and recklessness by posting here. 😂

[Motown Bombers]

I mean, the criminal charges and media circus are his own doing. Are we supposed to ignore everything and assume it will all get better if he gets more money to buy faster cars? 

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I mean, the criminal charges and media circus are his own doing. Are we supposed to ignore everything and assume it will all get better if he gets more money to buy faster cars? 

yeah - you can critique his automotive judgment from the get-go for racing in a jeep.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Take it for what it's worth from Charlie Campbell at Walter Football . . .

Multiple Teams Are Removing Jalen Carter

Updated April 3, 2023
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Quote

 

Reports came out recentlyy that Las Vegas Raiders had ruled out Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter. Carter is one of the most talented players for the 2023 NFL Draft and is an elite athlete. However, there are a lot of character and work-ethic concerns with Carter around the league. Those were established before his street-racing incident, and then he gained nine pounds between the combine and pro day, with Carter being so out of shape that he could not complete his pro-day workout. Those issues led to Carter being ruled out by the Raiders, according to media reports. WalterFootball.com spoke with sources from two other teams picking in the top 10 that need help at defensive tackle, and they said that Carter is getting pulled off their draft boards as well.

"We definitely need him, but we won't be drafting him," said a director of player personnel. "We aren't going to mess with him with that work ethic and character."

Carter gave the character and work-ethic concerns more validation with his weight gain after the combine and having failed to prepare enough to do his pro day workout. Sources also said that the interviews with Carter have been underwhelming.

"The car-racing issue is very troubling, but beyond that mistake the work ethic and character aren't going to be a fit with us," said another director of player personnel."

Some team sources are unconvinced that Carter can be reeled in and grow into being a professional. "He was allowed to get away with a lot of stuff at Georgia," said an area scout. As a result, there are doubts that Carter is going to handle being disciplined well.

In their pursuit of National Championships, the Bulldogs program has earned a reputation of having a lot of low-character individuals, including the likes of Adam Anderson - multiple sexual assault accusations - and Devonte Wyatt - domestic violence issues. Other players who have had character concerns included Steelers wide receiver George Pickens. This year, Bulldogs left tackle Broderick Jones also has character issues, according to some team sources.

Not all teams picking high in the first round of the 2023 NFL Draft feel that Carter's character issues are bad enough to remove him from their board, with one NFL general manager texting as much. While Georgia has been willing to tolerate poor character, not all pro teams are following suit, and as a result, multiple franchises with top-10 picks are pulling Carter off their draft boards.

 

 

[Jason_R]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I mean, the criminal charges and media circus are his own doing. Are we supposed to ignore everything and assume it will all get better if he gets more money to buy faster cars? 

Well, sort of. He didn’t wreck his car and kill anyone. If that drunk girl hadn’t lost control, that night would have ended with a trip to Waffle House. 

I totally agree there are red flags and I won’t care if the Lions pick him or don’t pick him. 

I don’t like seeing people become judge, jury, and executioner, making judgements about his character and sharing them on social media in ways that will impact his future, on the basis of the unfounded speculation that the guy is a monster. 

In my speculation — which I admit is speculation — I try to assume the guy has normal human emotions and would be impacted by what he’s gone through, regardless of whether he brought it on himself. 

[Hongbit]

Nobody here knows Jalen Carter.  You have no idea what he’s like, how he feels, or really anything about him.  

What you do know is how you would feel and your expectations of how someone should feel in this situation.   It’s not the same and it’s not relevant in this case.  

The words “maybe”, “possibly”, “could have”, “would hope” are all littered through this discussion.   What isn’t speculative is that he was out of shape and couldn’t finish basic combine drills at his all important workout.    That’s all that we know for sure.  

Edited April 3, 2023 by Hongbit

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

Nobody here knows Jalen Carter.  You have no idea what he’s like, how he feels, or really anything about him.  

What you do know is how you would feel and your expectations of how someone should feel in this situation.   It’s not the same and it’s not relevant in this case.  

The words “maybe”, “possibly”, “could have”, “would hope” are all littered through this discussion.   What isn’t speculative is that he was out of shape and couldn’t finish basic combine drills at his all important workout.    That’s all that we know for sure.  

I agree with this. This is why if we are going to speculate about him — which everybody on this board and all across social media is — we should attribute normal human emotions to him, rather than assuming he is a monster or an animal. 

Not saying you are doing this, but it would be disingenuous to speculate that the guy is a monster or animal, incapable of normal human emotions, then to tell people to stop speculating that the guy may be dealing with normal human emotions. 

Finally, I’m not saying the team should or shouldn’t draft him. I just don’t like dog piling. 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

Nobody here knows Jalen Carter.  You have no idea what he’s like, how he feels, or really anything about him.  

What you do know is how you would feel and your expectations of how someone should feel in this situation.   It’s not the same and it’s not relevant in this case.  

The words “maybe”, “possibly”, “could have”, “would hope” are all littered through this discussion.   What isn’t speculative is that he was out of shape and couldn’t finish basic combine drills at his all important workout.    That’s all that we know for sure.  

you seem to think you know a lot about carter fromnwhat youve posted.

but, like you say, nobody knows nothin.  i assume holmes will do jis homework and if there are big issues he'll pass.  them bringing him in for an interview would be an important step, i assume.

doing due diligence is important and theyre doing that.

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

you seem to think you know a lot about carter fromnwhat youve posted.

but, like you say, nobody knows nothin.  i assume holmes will do jis homework and if there are big issues he'll pass.  them bringing him in for an interview would be an important step, i assume.

doing due diligence is important and theyre doing that.

You keep pushing to draft Carter and minimizing what we do know. We know he showed up to his pro day too fat to complete basic drills. That's certainly not one of the top athletes in the draft. 

[Hongbit]

13 minutes ago, buddha said:

you seem to think you know a lot about carter fromnwhat youve posted.

but, like you say, nobody knows nothin.  i assume holmes will do jis homework and if there are big issues he'll pass.  them bringing him in for an interview would be an important step, i assume.

doing due diligence is important and theyre doing that.

All I know for sure is that he came out of shape and unable to perform to the biggest showcase of the draft.   That alone could be enough for some to drop him on their board.  

I also know there were prior rumors about his work ethic and commitment to football.  Don’t know if they are true and I didn’t put much weight into them but his workout performance would seem to back these up. Maybe it’s just an unlucky coincidence and those prior rumors were completely false.

 

 I don’t know if he felt any remorse from the accident or if he has any depression.  I am not sure anyone really knows that so how do you really put any weight on it when it comes to drafting him.  You got to go with the facts and he didn’t show up and show out when he needed.  End of day there is too much risk here for me to spend the 6 pick on him.  

Edited April 3, 2023 by Hongbit

[buddha]

17 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

All I know for sure is that he came out of shape and unable to perform to the biggest showcase of the draft.   That alone could be enough for some to drop him on their board.  

I also know there were prior rumors about his work ethic and commitment to football.  Don’t know if they are true and I didn’t put much weight into them but his workout performance would seem to back these up. Maybe it’s just an unlucky coincidence and those prior rumors were completely false.

 

 I don’t know if he felt any remorse from the accident or if he has any depression.  I am not sure anyone really knows that so how do you really put any weight on it when it comes to drafting him.  You got to go with the facts and he didn’t show up and show out when he needed.  End of day there is too much risk here for me to spend the 6 pick on him.  

that's a fair opinion.  i dont agree, but i dont really know if there is fire behind that smoke.  there very well could be and if they think they cant rehabilitate him or get him to work, then i'm comfortable they will pass on him.

[NYLion]

8 minutes ago, buddha said:

that's a fair opinion.  i dont agree, but i dont really know if there is fire behind that smoke.  there very well could be and if they think they cant rehabilitate him or get him to work, then i'm comfortable they will pass on him.

His Pro Day debacle certainly fuels that fire though and validates some of the smoke about work ethic conerns. Nobody knows WHY he showed up at his pro day out of shape but it's certainly something we know for a fact that should raise a red flag.

[MichiganCardinal]

These questions about Carter’s character are nice and all, but are there any high school pitchers with questionable long-term arm stability available?

[TP_Fan]

 

[Cruzer1]

[TP_Fan]

Am I reading that right?  8 lbs lighter and the score drops from 7.87 to 4.77? They are the same height.

models with extreme variation under marginal input differences is suspect. Difference between 257 and 249 is a weekend of beer and pizza.  

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, TP_Fan said:

 

I know there's a limit on how many players a team can bring in, but there isn't a limit on how many teams a player can visit, is there?  I'm trying to understand the move here as I'm sure it's coming from the agent, not from Carter himself.  I mean, I suppose it's possible Carter is calling this shot, but I can't see any agent agreeing to that unless s/he thought it was a good idea too.

The only thing I can think of is that they're trying to play like Carter's stock isn't dropping or in jeopardy from the various things that have happened.  Like: "Yeah, we're so confident that we're going in the top 10, there's no need to even talk to anyone else."

Personally this seems like a super stupid move by Carter's agent. This feels like it's coming off as arrogant.  I think Carter visiting a bunch of teams and having good interviews with them would be a way to really raise his stock and maybe get a team to trade up for him if he starts to slip a bit. I wonder if the agent is worried that Carter won't interview well? 

[RedRamage]

9 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

Am I reading that right?  8 lbs lighter and the score drops from 7.87 to 4.77? They are the same height.

models with extreme variation under marginal input differences is suspect. Difference between 257 and 249 is a weekend of beer and pizza.  

So that's what Carter was doing between the Combine and pro-day...

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I know there's a limit on how many players a team can bring in, but there isn't a limit on how many teams a player can visit, is there?  I'm trying to understand the move here as I'm sure it's coming from the agent, not from Carter himself.  I mean, I suppose it's possible Carter is calling this shot, but I can't see any agent agreeing to that unless s/he thought it was a good idea too.

The only thing I can think of is that they're trying to play like Carter's stock isn't dropping or in jeopardy from the various things that have happened.  Like: "Yeah, we're so confident that we're going in the top 10, there's no need to even talk to anyone else."

Personally this seems like a super stupid move by Carter's agent. This feels like it's coming off as arrogant.  I think Carter visiting a bunch of teams and having good interviews with them would be a way to really raise his stock and maybe get a team to trade up for him if he starts to slip a bit. I wonder if the agent is worried that Carter won't interview well? 

Drew Rosenhaus is one of the best in the business so my thought is he suspects Carter is not getting drafted in the top 10 and is trying to create an impression he is a top 10 pick. 

[Hongbit]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

Drew Rosenhaus is one of the best in the business so my thought is he suspects Carter is not getting drafted in the top 10 and is trying to create an impression he is a top 10 pick. 

Drew knows that he won’t make it past 18.  

[RedRamage]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Drew Rosenhaus is one of the best in the business so my thought is he suspects Carter is not getting drafted in the top 10 and is trying to create an impression he is a top 10 pick. 

Yeah, I mean I guess... I don't see it working personally.  I don't see a GM at the 8-10 range going: "Oh man, he dropped to me and he's supposed to be a clear cut top 10?  Well, then I'm grabbing him!"

What I do see happening is teams in the 11-15 range going: "He's an undeniable talent, but I'm worried about the red flags.  Sure wish I had an opportunity to interview him one on one to try to answer some of those questions.  Without that chance I just not sure I'm gonna take a flier on him."

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Yeah, I mean I guess... I don't see it working personally.  I don't see a GM at the 8-10 range going: "Oh man, he dropped to me and he's supposed to be a clear cut top 10?  Well, then I'm grabbing him!"

What I do see happening is teams in the 11-15 range going: "He's an undeniable talent, but I'm worried about the red flags.  Sure wish I had an opportunity to interview him one on one to try to answer some of those questions.  Without that chance I just not sure I'm gonna take a flier on him."

I get the feeling he's trying to build him into a top 10 pick so you can look at a team like Detroit and be like "hey Lions, you better grab at 6 because he won't be around at 18." I'm not sure I agree with the strategy but Rosenhaus is one of the best and has a long history of representing players with baggage. He's the best agent Carter could have gotten. It's interesting for sure.