2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Stroud comp-ing to Goff is overly simplistic, but the style of “pro style” pocket passer (like Ryan, Brady, Goff, and Stroud) is going the way of the dodo bird in favor of athlete-first passers. I think Stroud’s abilities were under-utilized by an Ohio State team that played 11 cupcakes in a 13-game schedule, and I think he is more mobile than he is given credit for. He’s not going to be a Lamar Jackson or Justin Fields, but I think he has an ability to keep plays alive with his feet.

If the Lions moved to #3 and he slipped, I would strongly consider him.

There will always be a place in this league for a guy who can stand in the pocket and throw for 4500 yards, year after year. 

[MichiganCardinal]

22 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

There will always be a place in this league for a guy who can stand in the pocket and throw for 4500 yards, year after year. 

I agree. I think the Patrick Mahomes effect has made lot of teams get shiny object syndrome around the Lamar Jacksons, Deshaun Watsons, and Joe Burrows of the league. But you can win a lot of games with Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, or (probably) CJ Stroud.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

PS: I forgot, also...

NT is called a 1-tech, directly over the Center.

3-tech means over either shoulder of the Guard

5-tech means outside shoulder of the OT

2-tech means directly in front of the OG

4-tech means directly over the OT.

There's also a "split-wide" DE which means they are far enough away from the OT that he doesn't count as being aligned with the OT, not even on the outside shoulder.

Thanks!

[Stanley70]

7 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Thanks!

0 Tech is directly over the center. A 1 tech is in either A gap. Ndamukong Suh used to play this position with Lions a lot and blow up plays immediately. 

Jim Schwartz used to play the "wide 9" with DE's lined up outside the TE. 

 

 

[RandyMarsh]

Not relevant to this draft but PFF put out their All Draft prospect team during the PFF era and 3 of the 10 O linemen on the team were Lions pick. Sewell was the 1st team LT, Ragnow 1st team RG and Laken Tomlinson 2 team RG.

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

13 hours ago, Stanley70 said:

0 Tech is directly over the center. A 1 tech is in either A gap. Ndamukong Suh used to play this position with Lions a lot and blow up plays immediately. 

Jim Schwartz used to play the "wide 9" with DE's lined up outside the TE. 

 

Levi Onwuzurike is also a 0 Tech DT. He has played zero games for the Detroit Lions.

[1984Echoes]

14 hours ago, Stanley70 said:

0 Tech is directly over the center. A 1 tech is in either A gap. Ndamukong Suh used to play this position with Lions a lot and blow up plays immediately. 

Jim Schwartz used to play the "wide 9" with DE's lined up outside the TE. 

Oh, yeah, I messed that up... forgot the 0-tech versus 1-tech.

Also... I gotta get away from confusing WR ("split-wide" nomenclature with the correct DL "wide-9"). I don't know why I did that... getting old and confused. One more point: a TE is not required for the wide-9, it's an extra player distance from the OT regardless of whether the player (TE) is actually there or not. Gives a speedy edge rusher a couple steps of momentum on the rush...

Here's a good (short) article on the 0-5 + wide-9 techniques:

https://www.thephinsider.com/2016/4/16/11443574/football-101-understanding-the-wide-nine-technique

[1984Echoes]

15 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Levi Onwuzurike is also a 0 Tech DT. He has played zero games for the Detroit Lions.

Well, he's a 3-tech who has played 0...

You know, semantics...

[MichiganCardinal]

21 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Levi Onwuzurike is also a 0 Tech DT. He has played zero games for the Detroit Lions.

Levi played in 15 games in 2021... If you want to say he has been productive in zero games for the Detroit Lions, I'll agree with you.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Regarding CJ Stroud, I just believe this is the organization and front office doing their due diligence. I firmly believe they are not drafting a 1st round QB and are more than happy with Goff as their starter. I don't think they are taking Stroud but in the event he is there when they draft at 6, they want to know what they have in Stroud.

[Shinzaki]

Stroud would be my 1st QB off the board.

I could live with the Lions using #18 for Hooker...or using some of the later picks to get back into the 20's if he's there.  

[Jason_R]

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Cardinals-Trying-Hard-to-Drum-Up-a-Trade-Market

Charlie Campbell quotes anonymous sources who say the Cardinals don’t have as much demand for their pick as has been reported. 

[Jason_R]

Lions have nine picks in this draft. Something tells me they don’t want to go home with nine guys. 

They need starters at DT and X receiver, future starters at CB and RG, and a rotational RB to pick up for Swift. That’s five picks, which would fit into their first three rounds.

Depending on how the board falls they may pick up depth at LB, TE, or DB, but they have four late round picks that they can use to jump around the board and target they guys they like. 

[RatkoVarda]

what is the standard draft value chart that teams are using?

this one reads that attaching a 5th to a 2nd, should move you up about 3 spots

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm

[gehringer_2]

17 hours ago, Jason_R said:

There will always be a place in this league for a guy who can stand in the pocket and throw for 4500 yards, year after year. 

The demise of the drop back passer is pretty regularly predicted, about  then another  crop of great ones comes along.

[KL2]

2 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

Stroud would be my 1st QB off the board.

I could live with the Lions using #18 for Hooker...or using some of the later picks to get back into the 20's if he's there.  

They don't need a 26 year old project 

[KL2]

2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Cardinals-Trying-Hard-to-Drum-Up-a-Trade-Market

Charlie Campbell quotes anonymous sources who say the Cardinals don’t have as much demand for their pick as has been reported. 

What you mean not every team wants to move up to take a qb third on their board?

People here wouldn't have you believe that.

[Hongbit]

Hooker makes no sense to me if he’s unable to do anything until well after season starts.  It’s a big waste of a crucial development year.  It would seem like a better idea to punt and draft a project QB next year when the draft is so much stronger at the position. 

[djhutch]

7 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Hooker makes no sense to me if he’s unable to do anything until well after season starts.  It’s a big waste of a crucial development year.  It would seem like a better idea to punt and draft a project QB next year when the draft is so much stronger at the position. 

Especially when you add his age into that equation.

[Hongbit]

Valenti brought up a great point yesterday.  Look at the state of the NFC right now.   It’s Philly and SF as the consensus 1-2.   Who’s next?  

It’s probably the Lions.  Maybe Dallas could be argued but even so that puts the Lions at no worse than 4th choice entering the season to make the Super Bowl.   They have a tremendous opportunity in front of them this season and need to use both of these picks on players that can make some type of impact right now.   They can’t afford to take any QB at 6 or 18 that would be for down the road  They need the help now to maximize this opportunity.  

[MichiganCardinal]

If the Lions are interested in moving up, I would definitely try to do it before the night of the draft. Between the Tepper-led Panthers and the revolving door in Houston, it’s far from a given that Stroud and Young go 1 and 2. And if either are there at 3, the price will go up.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I'm not trading up until I know what the Texans are doing at #2. There isn't a rock solid guarantee that they'll take a QB. They may wait until next year and enter into the Caleb Williams sweepstakes. I'm only trading up to #3 with Arizona if it is to get Will Anderson and the price is reasonable. I'm not giving up #6 and #18, which is what I think it will take to move up if past trades are any indicator. If the Texans pass on a QB and take Anderson then trading up to #3 and giving up whatever amount of draft capital will have been a waste.

[djhutch]

7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'm not trading up until I know what the Texans are doing at #2. There isn't a rock solid guarantee that they'll take a QB. They may wait until next year and enter into the Caleb Williams sweepstakes. I'm only trading up to #3 with Arizona if it is to get Will Anderson and the price is reasonable. I'm not giving up #6 and #18, which is what I think it will take to move up if past trades are any indicator. If the Texans pass on a QB and take Anderson then trading up to #3 and giving up whatever amount of draft capital will have been a waste.

Not necessarily.  If they've traded up early & there's still a QB available at 3, that pick suddenly becomes very valuable for anyone wanting ahead of Indy.  We can replenish what we gave away to move up.

 

I should preface that by saying I'm not in favor of moving up at all in this draft. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by djhutch

[Mr.TaterSalad]

7 minutes ago, djhutch said:

Not necessarily.  If they've traded up early & there's still a QB available at 3, that pick suddenly becomes very valuable for anyone wanting ahead of Indy.  We can replenish what we gave away to move up.

 

I should preface that by saying I'm not in favor of moving up at all in this draft. 

So then Brad Holmes is Sonny Weaver in Draft Day. I traded up but now I want my picks back. To me, the only reason I'm trading up is to get Will Anderson. I'm only doing it once I am certain Houston is taking a QB, which will likely be on draft night itself when their pick is announced. I would sit at #6 and miss out on trading up with Arizona then make the trade, only to watch Houston draft Will Anderson at #3.

I think Jalen Carter, in another universe, might warrant a trade up to #3. But in this universe, my internal and uneducated speculation still believes he is off the Lions draft board.

[NYLion]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Hooker makes no sense to me if he’s unable to do anything until well after season starts.  It’s a big waste of a crucial development year.  It would seem like a better idea to punt and draft a project QB next year when the draft is so much stronger at the position. 

The whole argument for taking a QB, outside of rookie contract, is "raising the ceiling". Well, you have a QB in Hooker that is many years older than their current QB was when he led his team to a Super Bowl and made multiple Pro Bowls so what you're getting with Hooker if he reaches his potential is pretty much what Goff is at his best and he likely won't even hit that level for at least a few years because of the injury and then having to get familiarized with the offense etc. then, guess what, it'll be time to pay him soon after. In the meantime, you pretty much wasted a pick in the win now window that could have been used for a Day 1 starter when the NFC is there to be had.

I've said that I'd be ok with taking him with one of the 2nds but I'm starting to backtrack on even that because it's only a 4 year rookie contract so I'm pretty much taking him off my board completely. I'd sooner gamble on the upside of Richardson who has the potential to be a "ceiling raiser" than settle for Hooker and I'd rather not do that either. If the Lions were in position to take Stroud or Young then maybe but these guys afterwards are just too risky with a potential reward that is a remote chance of happening.

Edited April 12, 2023 by NYLion