2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Hongbit]

10 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Do people here have significant criticisms of Stroud’s game/tape? I get the argument for not taking him that “Goff is here and Goff is great”. If that’s your stance I don’t have an argument.

But if the top five goes Young/Wilson/Anderson/Richardson/Carter (which wouldn’t be the craziest thing if reports are to be believed), I think there is a strong case to be made for taking Stroud.

I see a really good prospect in Stroud. I think a lot of his tape makes him appear limited, but that it’s a product of playing at Ohio State, where they can coast through 11 games by just not making mistakes. I feel like he was coached to stand tall in the pocket, make his passes, and to fold under pressure rather than making the play with his legs, because the offense could easily withstand a few minus plays, and would only lose if they got into significant turnover trouble… when the leash was taken off against Georgia, we saw a whole new prospect. Certainly one game doesn’t make the prospect, but it says something that he went up against the National Champions and would have won if a kick was made.

It’s not every day that arguably the top QB prospect of a draft falls into your lap. I see a guy with the ceiling of Aaron Rodgers (minus the psychedelics) and a floor of Goff. I’m curious if others don’t see the same prospect I see though.

I see a typical OSU QB.  Big kid with good arm and average mobility surrounded by superstar playmakers.  How much different is he than JT Barrett, Dwayne Haskins, Cardale Jones?  I don’t think he’s a bad prospect but it’s hard to figure out what he does really well that will translate to having success playing on a pretty bad NFL team. 

[Jimbo]

I don't think Goff is a good comparison for Stroud.  Stroud does have some mobility that we saw during the Georgia game and I would consider Goff as having zero mobility.  Stroud is a pocket passer that is accurate though which could flourish in our system with this offensive line.  The advantage of drafting him would be a top level QB on a rookie contract instead of paying Goff for an extension when the cost of QBs keep going up.  Not saying I would want them to trade up although i would be fine if Stroud slipped to 6 and they took him.

 

[MichiganCardinal]

Stroud went 0-2 against Michigan, which means he will break the trend of OSU QBs in the NFL. 😉 

[Motown Bombers]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I don't think Goff is a good comparison for Stroud.  Stroud does have some mobility that we saw during the Georgia game and I would consider Goff as having zero mobility.  Stroud is a pocket passer that is accurate though which could flourish in our system with this offensive line.  The advantage of drafting him would be a top level QB on a rookie contract instead of paying Goff for an extension when the cost of QBs keep going up.  Not saying I would want them to trade up although i would be fine if Stroud slipped to 6 and they took him.

 

So what happens if Stroud good? Do you draft another QB? 

[MichiganCardinal]

I think if Holmes and Co. believe that the standard set by Goff in his final ten games of 2022 is what can be expected moving forward, they won’t even entertain an early QB in this draft.

If they believe that he may have played a little (or a lot) above and beyond his skill set though, they will certainly continue to explore all options for a successor.

I lean a little towards the latter with Goff, though I certainly hope the former is the case. I don’t think he is simply beyond replacement but I also don’t think we need to rush to find someone else.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

NFL.com Scouting Report on CJ Stroud from Greg Zierlein is literally our QB. So drafting Goff's replacement to hope he ends up exactly like Jared Goff.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[CMRivdogs]

So what's wrong with drafting Stroud if you feel he's the best on the board at the time. Develop him and use him as insurance against an injury by Goff. When time comes for Goff extension you will still have the opportunity to trade one or the other QBs down the line.

[Motown Bombers]

17 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think if Holmes and Co. believe that the standard set by Goff in his final ten games of 2022 is what can be expected moving forward, they won’t even entertain an early QB in this draft.

If they believe that he may have played a little (or a lot) above and beyond his skill set though, they will certainly continue to explore all options for a successor.

I lean a little towards the latter with Goff, though I certainly hope the former is the case. I don’t think he is simply beyond replacement but I also don’t think we need to rush to find someone else.

I lean towards the former since he has a history of playing that well over multiple seasons such as 2017 and 2018. This isn't a Geno Smith situation where he's been a terrible QB and journeyman his whole career and breaks out at age 32. We've also seen QBs peak, decline, and peak again like Stafford. There's only a handful of QBs who are elite every single year. 

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

So what's wrong with drafting Stroud if you feel he's the best on the board at the time. Develop him and use him as insurance against an injury by Goff. When time comes for Goff extension you will still have the opportunity to trade one or the other QBs down the line.

Goff has been extremely durable his entire career. Drafting a backup at 6 is a waste of a pick. Stroud isn't going to have any trade value if he's just sitting on the bench. No one is going to give a 1st round pick for Jordan Love for example. You draft a QB at 6 to be your starter and start soon. A QB taken in the top 10 is also not cheap. You're going to be paying about $7-8 million in addition to Goff's salary. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

So what's wrong with drafting Stroud if you feel he's the best on the board at the time. Develop him and use him as insurance against an injury by Goff. When time comes for Goff extension you will still have the opportunity to trade one or the other QBs down the line.

We have a chance to be a special team next year. As good or better than the 1991 team that went 12-4 and probably one of, if not the best, Lions team, in many of our lives. The #6 pick needs to be used on an impact player who can both start right away and make an impact on this team next year. A player that can elevate our team to the next level. You don't use the #6 pick to draft a backup, only to decide which QB you want later.

Arizona used their #10 1st round pick on Josh Rosen and traded him a year later for significantly less value than what they acquired him for.

[Motown Bombers]

The three players taken after Rosen were Minkah Fitspatrick, Vita Vea and Darron Payne. All Pro Bowlers. If you look within the next 10 picks after Rosen you have such players as Tremaine Edmunds, Derwin James, Jaire Alexander, and Frank Ragnow. You even have some solid contributors such as Marcus Davenport, Kolton Miller and Lieghton Vander Esch. Literally all 10 players drafted after Rosen have been better players. 

[Hongbit]

25 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

So what's wrong with drafting Stroud if you feel he's the best on the board at the time. Develop him and use him as insurance against an injury by Goff. When time comes for Goff extension you will still have the opportunity to trade one or the other QBs down the line.

Because we are a legit contender in the weak NFC right now.  That pick at 6 should be a player that can help them today anything else is wasting the chance to maximize the present opportunity.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Hongbit

[Motown Bombers]

If we build a roster like the 49ers we can afford to trade multiple 1sts in the future when the time comes. 

[Jimbo]

I am not saying that we should take Stroud but I would understand if we did.  I think our situation could be different when we have to pay Stroud and the thought would be that he would be better than Goff is now which is a second contract.

I like Goff and I am fine with giving him an extension if that is the direction they feel is best.  I just wouldn't be upset if they drafted Stroud or another QB.  Goff is a good to great QB if he has time but lets not get carried away and call him a hall of fame player yet.  If he doesn't have the offensive line, I am not sure we would be having this conversation.  Nothing wrong with upgrading if you think you can with a rookie.

[RandyMarsh]

24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If we build a roster like the 49ers we can afford to trade multiple 1sts in the future when the time comes. 

Yep, and for argument sake lets say Goff takes a step back this coming year or shows that negotiations are going to be difficult or more expensive then you want to take on then you can just take a QB next year. If it takes trading multiple 1sts or extra mid round picks to make sure you get one of the top ones then so be it. As long as that QB isn't a project like Richardson he should be able to step in right away and have success considering the talent he has to work with.

Again though I think this is all hypothetical cause I believe Goff is and will be the long term answer but if he isn't it's not like we're gonna be screwed cause we didn't take a QB this draft. 

[buddha]

if they draft a qb at 6, it will be because they see him as goff's replacement in two years, not because they need a backup this year.  

you shoot for the moon with the #6 pick.

[Motown Bombers]

Another one of my favorite arguments is Goff doesn't do well without a good offensive line. It's easier to draft lineman than it is to draft QBs who can thrive without an offensive line. Going with the expectation that we want a QB without a good offensive line is Stafford 2.0 where we don't win a playoff game and see him go somewhere else and win a Super Bowl. 

[Jimbo]

If Goff has another year like he did last year and they win a playoff game, I am good giving him an extension.  I definitely don't want to make him one of the highest paid QBs though and more like a 3 year extension.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Just now, buddha said:

if they draft a qb at 6, it will be because they see him as goff's replacement in two years, not because they need a backup this year.  

you shoot for the moon with the #6 pick.

You're a player or two away from being the lead dog in the NFC next year. I'm drafting someone who I think can come right in, contribute at a high level now, and still be a great player overtime. That's Will Anderson, that's Tyree Wilson, maybe that's Jalen Carter, Devon Witherspoon, or Christian Gonzalez. I don't think that is any of the QBs. They won't be serious contributors for a year or more.

With Goff being one of the 7-8 best QBs in the NFL the past year and a half, I see no reason to run him out of town as many tried doing, most notably me, with Stafford for half a decade. I see no reason to pass on a player who can elevate us to the top now in favor of a QB unless you believe Goff can't sustain the high level of play he's shown on field.

[RandyMarsh]

Goff's only 28 years old so if you believe enough in him to give him an extension then it's in your best interest to make it as long as possible. You don't want to make it short then in a few years have to hand out another extension after the market surely will have gone up even more. 

To add context to his age, Drew Brees turned 28 his first year with the Saints and think how much success him and the team had after that? Rodgers had less than 50 career starts when he was 28 years old.

Edited April 19, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

You're a player or two away from being the lead dog in the NFC next year. I'm drafting someone who I think can come right in, contribute at a high level now, and still be a great player overtime. That's Will Anderson, that's Tyree Wilson, maybe that's Jalen Carter, Devon Witherspoon, or Christian Gonzalez. I don't think that is any of the QBs. They won't be serious contributors for a year or more.

With Goff being one of the 7-8 best QBs in the NFL the past year and a half, I see no reason to run him out of town as many tried doing, most notably me, with Stafford for half a decade. I see no reason to pass on a player who can elevate us to the top now in favor of a QB unless you believe Goff can't sustain the high level of play he's shown on field.

that's not the best way to draft, imo.  you need to think about the future and build a solid base of talent.  

im not advocating drafting a qb, but "we need someone to contribute right now" is not the way to draft.  especially not that high.

of the players you mentioned, all of them will have growing pains.  tyree wilson?  very unrefined player.  anderson is small.  first year corners almost always suck (gardner is a massive exception).

honestly, if you really wanted a plug and play guy, take bijan.  but again, with the long term in mind that's not a good decision to draft an rb that high.

[buddha]

19 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

You're a player or two away from being the lead dog in the NFC next year. I'm drafting someone who I think can come right in, contribute at a high level now, and still be a great player overtime. That's Will Anderson, that's Tyree Wilson, maybe that's Jalen Carter, Devon Witherspoon, or Christian Gonzalez. I don't think that is any of the QBs. They won't be serious contributors for a year or more.

With Goff being one of the 7-8 best QBs in the NFL the past year and a half, I see no reason to run him out of town as many tried doing, most notably me, with Stafford for half a decade. I see no reason to pass on a player who can elevate us to the top now in favor of a QB unless you believe Goff can't sustain the high level of play he's shown on field.

would you give goff the contract jalen hurts just got?

[Motown Bombers]

I don't buy you can't draft a RB because their careers are short. Todd Gurley had a short career, even by RB standards but I doubt the Rams regret using their 10th pick on him. If you can get an elite player for 5 years I think I take that. Roster turnover happens so much in the NFL. This team will likely look a lot different in 5 years. 

[RandyMarsh]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

would you give goff the contract jalen hurts just got?

I wouldn't right this second cause even though I personally am a Goff believer we still have a couple years left on his current deal so no need to take on the extra risk just in case things go south whether its his play or injury. In a year or two if/when they get serious about extension talks and the Hurts contract is what it took to extend him then yeah I'd do it, assuming of course that his play is still on its current level. 

[Motown Bombers]

27 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Goff's only 28 years old so if you believe enough in him to give him an extension then it's in your best interest to make it as long as possible. You don't want to make it short then in a few years have to hand out another extension after the market surely will have gone up even more. 

To add context to his age, Drew Brees turned 28 his first year with the Saints and think how much success him and the team had after that? Rodgers had less than 50 career starts when he was 28 years old.

I think Brees is a good comp to Goff. Brees didn't have elite arm talent or was the most mobile. he was, however, one of if the most accurate passer of all time. People forget that Saints offense was very good at running the ball and wasn't exactly a downfield type offense. Strong running game and efficient intermediate passing is Goff's wheelhouse. I see a lot of that in the Lions offense last year.