Longgone Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The problem is, you don't know if Love is any good because he hasn't played. He would only play unless Rodgers is injured for an extended period of time or you bench Rodgers. If Rodgers had injury issues or was benched for being ineffective, then Rodgers wouldn't have trade value. The Packers have been Super Bowl contenders two of the three seasons Love has been in the league. The Packers have come up short in the playoffs while their 1st round pick has been on the bench. They know, thats a scouts job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: If Holmes really likes a LT in the first round, he should draft him. Let him sit on the bench. The Lions have no backup for Decker so it really is a need. I wouldn't have a problem with that. The NFL is a game of attrition, players get hurt all the time. They also get expensive in a capped league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Longgone said: They know, thats a scouts job. Scout what? The way he holds a clipboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) If Anderson and Carter are off the board and we do end up trading down would you consider doubling up on CBs with our first 2 picks? Edited January 19, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: Here's the thing with the Packers, they tried to get cute with it again. They traded up for Love 3 years ago. He has 83 pass attempts in 3 seasons and has an 0-1 record so he didn't even win the one game Rodgers missed. He's going into year four and Rodgers very likely will come back. Green Bay now has to decide whether to pick up a 5th year option on a QB who has started one game in three years. Wouldn't Tee Higgins look better for Green Bay? Whose going to trade for Love? Does he have trade value? I can't imagine a team would trade a 1st round pick for a QB who hasn't played in three years. yeah - even if the basic strategy can work, the Packers missed on the timing - they were at least two or three years too soon with Love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 in 2011 alex smith (at age 27, one year younger than jared goff is now) broke out under his new head coach jim harbaugh. that team had a rookie qb on it named colin kapernick. the next year alex smith was lights out - in fact, he had a better qbr and total qb rate than jared goff's best season - but harbaugh benched him in favor of this kapernick kid. they went to the super bowl. that offseason they traded smith to the chiefs for two second round picks. meanwhile, kapernick led them back to the nfc championship game. i'll take that from anthony richardson. that says two things to me: 1) talented qbs sometimes need good systems and structures to play well, and 2) there are plenty of ways to build a roster in the nfl. if the lions think richardson is an elite talent they can develop, they should draft him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, buddha said: then you have a great problem to work out and lots of trade bait with which to solve it. Is it great trade bait? How much value do you think Lance or Love have right now? A lot less than it was on draft day, I'll say that much. If you have a QB sitting behind your starter for a few years, it's a depreciating asset. If you're taking a QB in Round 1 that means you don't believe in your current QB to be the answer for much longer, I don't think that's the case here. Favre was old when Rodgers was drafted, Smith was older and fairly average when Mahomes was drafted, Garrapolo was average when Lance was drafted etc. so I don't see those situations as the same of this one with Goff who was a borderline top 5 QB this season. Edited January 19, 2023 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: If Anderson and Carter are off the board and we do end up trading down would you consider doubling up on CBs with our first 2 picks? maybe. but if the draft is deep at cb, they should probably take a talent at another position too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 jared goff playing well last year is great news on many fronts for the lions. they no longer HAVE to take the qb of the future this year, but they still can if they want to. its good to have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, NYLion said: Is it great trade bait? How much value do you think Lance or Love have right now? A lot less than it was on draft day, I'll say that much. If you have a QB sitting behind your starter for a few years, it's a depreciating asset. how much value does rodgers or goff have right now? that's the other alternative, build up the youngster and then trade the veteran. like the niners did with smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, buddha said: how much value does rodgers or goff have right now? that's the other alternative, build up the youngster and then trade the veteran. like the niners did with smith. The thing is, Goff is right smack dab in the middle of his prime so he could have another 5 high level years easy so if Goff is your starter leading you to the playoffs regularly for the next 2-3 years and Richardson never gets off the bench outside of mop up duty or the occasional meaningless game like Love, how much value does he have when you realize, again, that Goff is your guy and Richardson needs a fresh start elsewhere? You're certainly not trading a 28-30 year old Goff if he's leading a perennial playoff contender. Also, in the interim during a winning window, you're getting nothing from your 1st round pick whereas you'd potentially be missing out on an impact player with that pick you wasted on Richardson like a defensive fix or a franchise RB in Robinson if they choose to go that route. I guess an alternate take would be if you're not buying in on Goff and see Richardson as a guy that can supplant him either next season or the one after if he falters. I think this regime is fully buying in on Goff. Drafting a QB with either 1st would contradict that so I don't see it happening regardless. Edited January 19, 2023 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, buddha said: in 2011 alex smith (at age 27, one year younger than jared goff is now) broke out under his new head coach jim harbaugh. that team had a rookie qb on it named colin kapernick. the next year alex smith was lights out - in fact, he had a better qbr and total qb rate than jared goff's best season - but harbaugh benched him in favor of this kapernick kid. they went to the super bowl. that offseason they traded smith to the chiefs for two second round picks. meanwhile, kapernick led them back to the nfc championship game. i'll take that from anthony richardson. that says two things to me: 1) talented qbs sometimes need good systems and structures to play well, and 2) there are plenty of ways to build a roster in the nfl. if the lions think richardson is an elite talent they can develop, they should draft him. You failed to take it out further. After they went to the Super Bowl, the 49ers didn't have a winning season for 5 years. Harbaugh was fired. Trent Baalke was fired. Kapernick only played a full season once and was average at best. Alex Smith made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons in Kansas City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 19 minutes ago, NYLion said: The thing is, Goff is right smack dab in the middle of his prime so he could have another 5 high level years easy so if Goff is your starter leading you to the playoffs regularly for the next 2-3 years and Richardson never gets off the bench outside of mop up duty or the occasional meaningless game like Love, how much value does he have when you realize, again, that Goff is your guy and Richardson needs a fresh start elsewhere? You're certainly not trading a 28-30 year old Goff if he's leading a perennial playoff contender. Also, in the interim during a winning window, you're getting nothing from your 1st round pick whereas you'd potentially be missing out on an impact player with that pick you wasted on Richardson like a defensive fix or a franchise RB in Robinson if they choose to go that route. I guess an alternate take would be if you're not buying in on Goff and see Richardson as a guy that can supplant him either next season or the one after if he falters. I think this regime is fully buying in on Goff. Drafting a QB with either 1st would contradict that so I don't see it happening regardless. i think those are all good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Also, Harbaugh didn't exactly bench Smith. Smith got injured with a concussion and missed time. Harbaugh chose to stick with Kapernick when Smith was cleared to play. In the long run, Smith ended up being better than Kapernick so I'm not sure that's the example we want to go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: You failed to take it out further. After they went to the Super Bowl, the 49ers didn't have a winning season for 5 years. Harbaugh was fired. Trent Baalke was fired. Kapernick only played a full season once and was average at best. Alex Smith made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons in Kansas City. they didnt have a winning season for five years because they fired jim harbaugh, not because they traded alex smith. and i'll take five losing seasons if i get a super bowl out of it. again, im not even advocating they take richardson or any qb. i trust holmes' decision making. but if they did, i imagine it would be because they thought he had the chance to be a great qb. and im ok with them using #18 or a second rounder on a chance like that at qb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Also, Harbaugh didn't exactly bench Smith. Smith got injured with a concussion and missed time. Harbaugh chose to stick with Kapernick when Smith was cleared to play. In the long run, Smith ended up being better than Kapernick so I'm not sure that's the example we want to go by. he played kapernick afterwards because he was a dynamic running qb. remember the packers game where he lit them up? example of a great coach using the skills of a qb to better the team. i think its a perfectly fine example to use. ymmv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: they didnt have a winning season for five years because they fired jim harbaugh, not because they traded alex smith. and i'll take five losing seasons if i get a super bowl out of it. again, im not even advocating they take richardson or any qb. i trust holmes' decision making. but if they did, i imagine it would be because they thought he had the chance to be a great qb. and im ok with them using #18 or a second rounder on a chance like that at qb. I mean, Kapernick simply wasn't as good as Smith even in the 8-8 season that Harbaugh was coach. I think I would rather be in the playoffs every year than lose a Super Bowl and start losing 10 or more games almost every year. The point with drafting Richardson or any QB in the 1st or 2nd round is two fold. It means you don't think Goff is the future and the QB you draft is going to be better than Goff. You don't just have two QBs on the field at the same time so having one on the bench does your team no good unless you are done with Goff and going to hand it over to the new QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, buddha said: he played kapernick afterwards because he was a dynamic running qb. remember the packers game where he lit them up? example of a great coach using the skills of a qb to better the team. i think its a perfectly fine example to use. ymmv. Fun fact. Jared Goff just beat the Packers. Twice. And he lost a Super Bowl as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Kapernick was also drafted in 2011, 6 years after Smith was drafted when it appeared Smith was a complete bust. It was the first year Harbaugh was there. Alex Smith was not Harbaugh's guy. Holmes traded for Goff and scouted him in LA. He's Holmes guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 It’s possible that the Super Bowl will match up the Eagles and the Bills. The Goffense put up 60 points combined against them. The defense gave up 856 combined yards. Where is the team more likely to improve? Yes, defense, so you put your assets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I would rather be in the playoffs every year than lose a Super Bowl and start losing 10 or more games almost every year. Participation trophies for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 9 minutes ago, KL2 said: Participation trophies for everyone! I mean he's talking about Kapernick participating in a Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 16 minutes ago, Jason_R said: It’s possible that the Super Bowl will match up the Eagles and the Bills. The Goffense put up 60 points combined against them. The defense gave up 856 combined yards. Where is the team more likely to improve? Yes, defense, so you put your assets there. Yeah but backup QB is one of the team's biggest needs even though Sudfeld didn't take a single snap in either of those games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Isn’t the primary reason to draft a QB more of a developmental opportunity? Of course having a good backup QB in the event of an injury wouldn’t be awful either—if Goff had a serious injury, it would likely sabotage the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Yeah but backup QB is one of the team's biggest needs even though Sudfeld didn't take a single snap in either of those games. Yep. If they had backed into the 2nd or 3rd pick, and Bryce Young was on the board… YOLO 🤷🏻♂️ OTOH Campbell has expressed his desire for a QB who can make plays with his feet. If Richardson is still on the board late in the second round it wouldn’t totally surprise me if they picked him and put him in some Taysom Hill-type packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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