2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Motor City Sonics]

1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I don't think there is a soul in this city and fanbase that would be upset if they made the Super Bowl and lost.

It would depend on how the refs find a new unique way to screw us and how late in the game it happened. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It would depend on how the refs find a new unique way to screw us and how late in the game it happened. 

Maybe on the coin toss? Do you remember when the Steelers were playing the Lions and Jerome Bettis called heads I believe and the coin landed on heads but the Refs gave the ball to the Lions anyways? Could be a situation like that.

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Winning a single playoff game would be awesome after 33 years.      

Of all the franchises that were around for the first Super Bowl, the Lions are the only one not to ever appear in a Super Bowl.    I don't count the Browns because that Browns franchise became the Ravens, who have been to several.  

1 playoff win in 65 years (Edit: 66 now). There will never, ever, be another futility record like this again in sports unless a team moves from its location then moves back like 50 years later. There are some 70+ year old Lions fans that have only witnessed one playoff victory.  It's beyond comprehension really.

Point being, winning one playoff game will feel like winning a Superbowl in this market. Lets get there first then dream bigger.

Edited February 27, 2023 by NYLion

[RandyMarsh]

I too wonder what these mysterious character issues for Carter are all about and if there are any actual substance to them. I know McShay said he heard he might slide because of them but that was several weeks ago and there was no specific thing he said he heard just the vague "character concerns".  Until I see some concrete evidence from multiple sources I'm not going to put any stock in them nor expect any team to do so either. 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, NYLion said:

1 playoff win in 65 years (Edit: 66 now). There will never, ever, be another futility record like this again in sports unless a team moves from its location then moves back like 50 years later. There are some 70+ year old Lions fans that have only witnessed one playoff victory.  It's beyond comprehension really.

Point being, winning one playoff game will feel like winning a Superbowl in this market. Lets get there first then dream bigger.

There was a stretch from 1949 through 2007 where Arizona won only 1 playoff game before making a Super Bowl run. People forget how bad the pre Drew Brees Saints used to be. They entered the league in 1967 and didn't win their first playoff game until 2000 before happening into Brees and Payton. The Saints could be a good model for the Lions. Just takes the right head coach and QB. The Lions may have that. 

[Motown Bombers]

Every year there is a player with character concerns. Sometimes they are right, like Nick Fairley, sometimes they are wrong like Laremy Tunsil. I wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Lions are leaking these character concerns so he slides down the draft. 

[MichiganCardinal]

58 minutes ago, KL2 said:

WHat character issues? 

That was something Todd McShay made up with no proof, nobody has confirme and seems to be completely false. 

There is too much smoke for me to categorize it as out-and-out false. McShay isn't the only one reporting it, so it's coming from somewhere (or multiple somewheres) and while those who are claiming it aren't coming out publicly, they're certainly making it known. I've also thought these PR stunts that Carter is pulling, having his buddies come out and say what a great guy he is, and leaking about paying for another guy's meals is phony as hell.

That said, I trust Holmes and Co. to do their own due diligence into the character concerns. I am sure they have their own sources in the Georgia program who can tell them what they need to know, and the truth of it too, not anybody's public spin of it.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Not sure how reliable this is. 

 

I tend to trust Risdon... but I'm less sure that I can trust what was told to him.  What I mean is that lots and lots of smoke is pushed out so I dunno if this is factual or smoke screen info.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It would depend on how the refs find a new unique way to screw us and how late in the game it happened. 

I actually thought about that and dismissed it because I'd be upset with the refs, not the Lions.  Perhaps splitting hairs but I wouldn't blame the Lions if they got screwed over on calls.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, KL2 said:

WHat character issues? 

That was something Todd McShay made up with no proof, nobody has confirme and seems to be completely false. 

mcshay doesnt make that stuff up.  somebody told him.

now, the somebody who TOLD him may have made it up, but probably not mcshay.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, RedRamage said:

I disagree on the Browns, but that's probably mostly so I feel better about being a Lions fan.  I also think it's fitting that the last time the Lions and Browns were both really good they were often competing against each other in the 50s for the league championship.

 

the browns were two yards away and 93 yards with 3 minutes away from a super bowl in the 80s.

the lions have never ever been as close to a super bowl as the cleveland browns.

trying to argue the lions arent the worst franchise in nfl history is a very tough argument to make.

[MichiganCardinal]

I do put weight into the Risdon quote, but I also don't think it means we won't take the top edge at 6 if they're the best player on the board. He tweeted this shortly after the tweet from above.

I think not taking Lukas Van Ness or Isaiah Foskey at 18 is pretty obvious. There are more pressing needs and a similar quality of player at other positions. But if the top player on your board is there at 6, and you see HOF potential, I don't think they let Charles Harris get in the way of taking that player.

[KL2]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

There is too much smoke for me to categorize it as out-and-out false. McShay isn't the only one reporting it, so it's coming from somewhere (or multiple somewheres) and while those who are claiming it aren't coming out publicly, they're certainly making it known. I've also thought these PR stunts that Carter is pulling, having his buddies come out and say what a great guy he is, and leaking about paying for another guy's meals is phony as hell.

That said, I trust Holmes and Co. to do their own due diligence into the character concerns. I am sure they have their own sources in the Georgia program who can tell them what they need to know, and the truth of it too, not anybody's public spin of it.

Again the only smoke is todd McShay then a bunch of people reporting his report. He is the only one! Look it up, not other one person has reported it on their one

And anyone who mentions it just like mcshay hasn't offered on piece of proof. It's just a "well he has character concerns"

You have fallen victim to it and it's a problem with sports journalism today. A lie was put out there for whatever reason, it wasn't verified, reported with no consequences then gets repeated a bunch of times by bad journalists and blogs. Then people like you are like well there is smoke and make it fact, when it isnt

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by KL2

[KL2]

32 minutes ago, buddha said:

mcshay doesnt make that stuff up.  somebody told him.

now, the somebody who TOLD him may have made it up, but probably not mcshay.

That's what I mean. I don't think he just invented on air randomly. Some gm said it and he just repeat it without verification or proof. So he is just as culpable in making it up

[KL2]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Not sure how reliable this is. 

 

Ok now tell us what is. (Not you Motown, jeff)

Put actual news and reporting out there. God I hate modern sports journalism

 

Edit to add: it gets better he then immediately tweets he didn't ask about Anderson. So the Lions won't draft a de before round 3 unless maybe the best guy is there then maybe. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by KL2

[MichiganCardinal]

2 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Again the only smoke is todd McShay then a bunch of people reporting his report. He is the only one! Look it up, not other one person has reported it.

You have fallen victim to it and it's a problem with sports journalism today 

 

I'm trying not to be the Charlie Campbell drum beater because it feels like I keep bringing him up, but he published his scouting report on Carter even before McShay's story came out, with mention of character concerns that he heard from "team sources".

I don't think the concerns are that he's a jerk in the locker room, or that he's bullying freshmen, or drinking late at night, or anything like that. For that matter, I don't think there is concrete evidence to be seen (as RandyMarsh put it), or some witness to some smoking gun character flaw... My impression from what I have read is that the concerns are more along the lines that Carter relies on raw athleticism and talent to have his way with college athletes. That he doesn't put in the work others do, in the weight room or at practice, either because he doesn't have to or doesn't want to. That it won't translate well to the NFL, either because (a) grown men NFL players who are working their ass off will seek to alienate him, causing the locker room issues, and/or (b) he's not enough of a freak-of-nature to have continued success relying on his raw talent against NFL centers and guards.

[Jason_R]

12 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I'm trying not to be the Charlie Campbell drum beater because it feels like I keep bringing him up, but he published his scouting report on Carter even before McShay's story came out, with mention of character concerns that he heard from "team sources".

I don't think the concerns are that he's a jerk in the locker room, or that he's bullying freshmen, or drinking late at night, or anything like that. For that matter, I don't think there is concrete evidence to be seen (as RandyMarsh put it), or some witness to some smoking gun character flaw... My impression from what I have read is that the concerns are more along the lines that Carter relies on raw athleticism and talent to have his way with college athletes. That he doesn't put in the work others do, in the weight room or at practice, either because he doesn't have to or doesn't want to. That it won't translate well to the NFL, either because (a) grown men NFL players who are working their ass off will seek to alienate him, causing the locker room issues, and/or (b) he's not enough of a freak-of-nature to have continued success relying on his raw talent against NFL centers and guards.

Yes, that’s the only thing I’ve seen about Carter. Maybe he doesn’t love practice or the weight room. That’s an important thing to consider, but it is unfair for McShay to throw out the phrase “character concerns” against a 20-year old if their worst trait is not grinding out another rep at the squat rack. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Jason_R

[MichiganCardinal]

28 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Yes, that’s the only thing I’ve seen about Carter. Maybe he doesn’t love practice or the weight room. That’s an important thing to consider, but it is unfair for McShay to throw out the phrase “character concerns” against a 20-year old if their worst trait is not grinding out another rep at the squat rack. 

Agreed. I think the term "character concerns" has grown into a catch-all for everything negative that could occur off the field, and that's not necessarily fair to a guy like Carter, when character concerns could also be attributed to guys like Titus Young and Nick Fairley, each for largely different reasons.

That said, I do understand having concern with taking someone who doesn't put in 100% and who you're concerned doesn't love football. With any player, you have to account for the possibility that he comes in and gets his ass handed to him in his first real practice for the first time in his life. Remember the video of Hutch getting managed by Sewell? How will Carter react if/when he gets pancaked or shut down by Jonah Jackson and Frank Ragnow in training camp? Will he put in the time and work to get better and beat them the next day, or take his rookie contract and be happy that his raw talent got him that much?

[RedRamage]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

the browns were two yards away and 93 yards with 3 minutes away from a super bowl in the 80s.

the lions have never ever been as close to a super bowl as the cleveland browns.

trying to argue the lions arent the worst franchise in nfl history is a very tough argument to make.

I don't disagree.  But if I include the Browns then at least the Lions aren't the only team to never make the SB.

[RedRamage]

2 hours ago, KL2 said:

You have fallen victim to it and it's a problem with sports journalism today. 

Fixed that for you...  Also, I don't know I would call it a lie.  For all we know McShay has a very reliable, very trustworthy source and 100% believe it to be true.  That doesn't mean it is true, but if McShay believes it to be true then it's not a lie.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Yes, that’s the only thing I’ve seen about Carter. Maybe he doesn’t love practice or the weight room. That’s an important thing to consider, but it is unfair for McShay to throw out the phrase “character concerns” against a 20-year old if their worst trait is not grinding out another rep at the squat rack. 

I would agree with this... Character Concerns connote something far different than not being a gym rat.

That said, these "workout concerns" (for lack of a better term) might be even a bigger negative for Campbell than "character concerns."  IF it's true that he's not a heavy workout, always trying to improve kinds guy that might be a big red flag for Dan.

[KL2]

41 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Fixed that for you...  Also, I don't know I would call it a lie.  For all we know McShay has a very reliable, very trustworthy source and 100% believe it to be true.  That doesn't mean it is true, but if McShay believes it to be true then it's not a lie.

By definition something not true is a lie. It's his job to verify everything even from a trustworthy sources. Reporting 101 there.

And it's not in all journalism today. You don't see reports like Biden fired his commerce secretary. Whoops no he didn't. Our bad moving on.

[1984Echoes]

16 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I see the reasoning, and I think they could. Ultimately though, I think Anderson is better, and Carter’s character issues would keep them away. I also think it’s noteworthy that while Carter is good, it doesn’t seem like he’s graded as a Ndamukong Suh or Quinnen Williams once-in-a-generation type of DT. Anderson might be, if his 2021 production translates to the NFL.

It would be a good problem to have, hopefully they would choose right.

I'm reading that the "character issues" are way overblown.

It's hard to know what to believe anymore. This happens every year.

From what I can tell, it would NOT be "character" issues that are the... uhhh... issue... But from Holmes/ Campbell's perspective the relevant issues that would concern these two are how much "dog" he has in him, how dedicated he is to football, how much of a leader he is, etc...

If there are no "real" character issues, but the team chose Anderson instead of Carter, given that they get this choice, then I think it's the reasons that I listed above that they take a pass... (if it's based on "character").

[Jason_R]

Of course this whole conversation assumes four QBs will be taken ahead of the Lions’ pick at six. I suppose it’s not out of the question, but I doubt any team desperate for a QB thinks Seattle or Detroit is competing with them for the chance to roll the dice on Richardson. 

I think the real question is whether Chicago will take Anderson/Carter at 1 or will they trade back with Indy to 4 and take whichever of the two that Arizona doesn’t pick. 

[1984Echoes]

6 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I do put weight into the Risdon quote, but I also don't think it means we won't take the top edge at 6 if they're the best player on the board. He tweeted this shortly after the tweet from above.

I think not taking Lukas Van Ness or Isaiah Foskey at 18 is pretty obvious. There are more pressing needs and a similar quality of player at other positions. But if the top player on your board is there at 6, and you see HOF potential, I don't think they let Charles Harris get in the way of taking that player.

 

What about a DE who can play all along the line and specifically the 3-technique on passing downs?

I think both Murphy and Wilson will be capable of playing all along the line given situational game-planning, so, especially on passing downs, you could have a Houston-Wilson-McNeil-Hutch line (for example).