10/21/2022 7:30 EDT Detroit Pistons vs New York Knicks

[RandyMarsh]

Just amazing how different the team is with Cade off the floor, only -5 in 18 minutes with him out there but -15 in just 6 minutes when he was on the bench. 

[Hart]

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Lack of size, lack of athleticism, lack of defense, lack of shooting = unwatchable.

I'll give Weaver till next year but at some point, he needs to be held responsible.  Killian is a bust.  Our bench is awful.  Noel and Bagley are not going to help the shooting problem this team has.  I am not going to criticize him for Cade if he doesn't become what many thought but at some point, you just have to hold the guy in charge of constructing the team accountable.  If we are one of the 5 worst teams three years in a row, that's a problem.  

[Hart]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

Just amazing how different the team is with Cade off the floor, only -5 in 18 minutes with him out there but -15 in just 6 minutes when he was on the bench. 

Plus/Minus can be very flukey.  I will say though you never have to worry about Cade not playing hard on defense.  Give him credit for that.  

[RandyMarsh]

1 minute ago, Hart said:

Plus/Minus can be very flukey.  I will say though you never have to worry about Cade not playing hard on defense.  Give him credit for that.  

It can be but it also just corresponds with the eye test particularly on offense. With him the possessions just look so much better, I feel that the vast majority of the time we're atleast getting a good look when he is out there, the shots may not fall but the look is good, without him it is just contested shots or turnovers. 

[1984Echoes]

I'm not really worried about Weaver.

I'm more thinking along the lines of... Can he pull off a Kevin Garnett trade? 

Ainge accumulated talent & draft picks and then, in order to move his team forward... traded a boatload of them for Garnett. They never won it all but... got into the Finals a couple of times. 

If we end up with a roster of talent that doesn't mesh well... Weaver needs to swing that critical trade, whatever it is....

That's why I'm not worried about him just yet... his job first is to accumulate talent, in any way possible. and not everyone (Killian) will make it. Then get the right coach. Then put in the last couple of pieces. Right now, he's still collecting talent and it's way too early to tell how the pieces will grow, will make it, or not, and will mesh.

I don't care about this year's record. And possibly not next year's either; however, if we're still struggling, then it's time to kick Casey upstairs. Actually... the sooner the better.

So... Casey is the first guy to be on any hot seat, not Weaver. IMO.

[boogiebunz]

The second unit... ewwww.   

I actually do think Bagley can help the second unit shooting. He is a reliable scorer inside, which hopefully forces defenses to collapse some and create open looks from the perimeter. Or, and I know I'm a minority in this, but if they start a big frontcourt of Bagley and Duren, then it could push Saddiq to the bench where he can be a primary scorer in the second unit. Otherwise, Casey has to stagger the rotations so that some of the starters mix in with the second unit earlier in the second quarter.

Also, Livers instead of Diallo could help bench scoring.

Edited October 22, 2022 by boogiebunz

[Hart]

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'm not really worried about Weaver.

I'm more thinking along the lines of... Can he pull off a Kevin Garnett trade? 

Ainge accumulated talent & draft picks and then, in order to move his team forward... traded a boatload of them for Garnett. They never won it all but... got into the Finals a couple of times. 

If we end up with a roster of talent that doesn't mesh well... Weaver needs to swing that critical trade, whatever it is....

That's why I'm not worried about him just yet... his job first is to accumulate talent, in any way possible. and not everyone (Killian) will make it. Then get the right coach. Then put in the last couple of pieces. Right now, he's still collecting talent and it's way too early to tell how the pieces will grow, will make it, or not, and will mesh.

I don't care about this year's record. And possibly not next year's either; however, if we're still struggling, then it's time to kick Casey upstairs. Actually... the sooner the better.

So... Casey is the first guy to be on any hot seat, not Weaver. IMO.

Any GM can accumulate talent with enough lottery picks.  Building a winning team is what matters.  

[Hart]

Some of these calls are pretty weak.  Cade went strait up and got called for the foul and now the same thing happened to Stewart.  

[RandyMarsh]

I wonder if Ivey would be better served defensively to slack off a bit, as mentioned his lateral quickness doesn't seem there but he does have length and presumably quick closing speed so maybe give some space out on perimeter. 

[1984Echoes]

8 minutes ago, Hart said:

Any GM can accumulate talent with enough lottery picks.  Building a winning team is what matters.  

And we're not there yet. The true potential stars for this team are kids and still going through massive learning curves at this point.

[Hart]

I do love when Saddiq starts gunning.  When you are down big, he lets loose.  But he should be doing at the beginning of games.  A Saddiq three is a better shot for this team than most anything else we can get on offense.  10 three attempts per game for Saddiq is not too much.  

[Hart]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

And we're not there yet. The true potential stars for this team are kids and still going through massive learning curves at this point.

That's what you give him till next year.  But if Saddiq/Stewart in year four, Cade in year three, and Ivey/Duren in year two still yields one of the worst teams in the league, that is not a good sign.  

[1984Echoes]

You and I have different timetables.

Let's just leave it at that.

[Hart]

8 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I wonder if Ivey would be better served defensively to slack off a bit, as mentioned his lateral quickness doesn't seem there but he does have length and presumably quick closing speed so maybe give some space out on perimeter. 

I am also wondering what his best position defensively is long term.  Doesn't seem like a good fit to have him guarding opposing teams point guards.  There are too many good ball handlers in this league.  At some point, the Pistons may have to find a quicker guard to start next to Cade and Ivey so they have a chance of stopping teams defensively.  

[Hart]

So good to see this from Saddiq.  I don't care if he is 0-7...he needs to keep shooting.  I really think the 34.6% three point shooting we saw last year is the floor for him.  

[RandyMarsh]

Of course if Saddiq put up games like this every game he'd be a stud but it's weird just how polarizing he can be, he'll have games like this where you think he could be a 20ppg guy with high shooting percentages but then he'll have a stretch of games where he just disappears offensively. Like if his bad games could just be merely bad instead of dreadful he could a solid to plus player in this league. 

[Hart]

The defense has definitely picked up without Ivey.  

[RandyMarsh]

I don't know how they expect to score with a lineup that doesn't have Cade, Bogdan, Ivey or Bey. 

[boogiebunz]

Hamadou Diallo does not belong on an NBA floor. Seriously.

[Hart]

6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I don't know how they expect to score with a lineup that doesn't have Cade, Bogdan, Ivey or Bey. 

It's going to take a flukey night like we got from Joseph in Game 1.  It's only two games but it seems like this is one of the worst benches we have had in recent history.  Missing Noel and Bagley are not really the issue either.  

[Hart]

It does beg the question once we get Noel or Bagley back, should we move Ivey to the bench so we don't implode on offense with our second unit?

Edit: I forgot about Burks.  That should help one way or another.  

Edited October 22, 2022 by Hart

[RandyMarsh]

8 minutes ago, Hart said:

It does beg the question once we get Noel or Bagley back, should we move Ivey to the bench so we don't implode on offense with our second unit?

Edit: I forgot about Burks.  That should help one way or another.  

Livers too but not sure how apt he is at getting his own shot but should atleast give them a shooter out there if Killian can find him. 

[1984Echoes]

41 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I don't know how they expect to score with a lineup that doesn't have Cade, Bogdan, Ivey or Bey. 

Get Duren and Livers up to speed and then push Bey & Stewart to the bench.

The bench now goes from a weakness to a strength. Add in Bagley off the bench (or swap with Duren if he's just not ready yet) and that also adds some Offense there...

[buddha]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Get Duren and Livers up to speed and then push Bey & Stewart to the bench.

The bench now goes from a weakness to a strength. Add in Bagley off the bench (or swap with Duren if he's just not ready yet) and that also adds some Offense there...

but bey and stewart are better than livers and duren.

this team is very young and is going to lose a lot of games.  they are 2 years away from the playin games, most likely.

[RandyMarsh]

I'm the biggest Cade fan there is but if he truly ends up just being a low 30s or worse 3PT shooter instead of the mid to upper 30s like what most expected that's going to be a real kick in the nuts. He's still going to be a really good player but he needs to be able to shoot at a plus level to be the superstar that we all hope he's going to be.