mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said: I'm just some old fart sitting in Virginia. I have no clue. All I know is since 2009 anything a Democratic President proposes it will be opposed by the opposition. And, in the event that said legislation passes, will gladly take credit for the positives (ie. Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 This is another "118th Congress" classic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: I suggest you actually take a look at all of the orders and actions Biden has taken regarding the border since taking office because it's a hell of a lot more than you think. https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-three-immigration-record Quote By taking 535 immigration actions over its first three years, the Biden administration has already outpaced the 472 immigration-related executive actions undertaken in all four years of President Donald Trump’s term. Partly as result of these efforts, legal immigration is returning to and in some cases surpassing pre-pandemic levels, including refugee admissions on pace to reach the highs of the 1990s; a new border process seeking to discourage irregular arrivals has been adopted; temporary humanitarian protections have been extended to hundreds of thousands of migrants; and enforcement priorities have been focused on narrower categories of unauthorized immigrants. Combined, these changes have fulfilled some of President Joe Biden’s campaign promises, helped bolster the U.S. economy, and reduced fears of seemingly arbitrary enforcement against removable noncitizens. Yet the border crisis confronting the Biden administration has left the most activist presidency yet on immigration accused of inaction by critics—to the extent that the House of Representatives this month launched impeachment proceedings against the administration’s Homeland Security secretary. The U.S. southern border has witnessed a record of at least 6.3 million migrant encounters at and between ports of entry since Biden took office in January 2021, according to data from the Office of Homeland Security Statistics, resulting in more than 2.4 million migrants allowed into the country. Most of these individuals are in active removal proceedings in immigration court, in which they can claim asylum as a defense against removal. Even some of Biden’s fellow Democrats have begun advocating for more stringent border control, adding a new dimension to immigration politics in a presidential election year when the issue is sure to be a defining one between the two political parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Every wonder if the reason for the growth in the US economy might be tied to low wage people flocking to our shores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 20 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: more than 2.4 million migrants allowed into the country. Most of these individuals are in active removal proceedings in immigration court Seems like everything is working as intended. Maybe we just need to get better at putting people through the system. Incidentally, one complicating factor on the GOP side is that there do exist people who, agree with them or not, have an earnest desire just better enforcement of the existing law or some tightening of the laws to make the asylum process more orderly. But if I had to guess, they are completely outweighed by the Stephen Miller types who just want to restrict any and all immigration indiscriminately. And as brainless as it is to anyone who can sit and think about the implications for 5 mins, the latter group has all the energy on that side of the aisle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Trump is more of the symptom.... the reality is that we have a political system where it's better to have the issue fester as a means to gin up anger versus actually doing anything to fix the issue. That would require governing, which it is clear that the people running the House GOP have no interest in doing. Especially in an election year with a Democratic President. I would add that, if Trump were to win and the GOP won both parts of the Legislature, they could take even take this bill and make changes to it that would make it, in their eyes, even better. But again, they are so blinded by politics that they either cannot see it or just don't care about the issue as much as they say. They have no interest in fixing it because they could no longer run on the problem. plus, they would be responsible for the failures of the solution, and who wants that? Also, it won't matter if Republicans run the board this November, because they still won't want the problem fixed because it's more valuable alive because they can blame the Democrat deep state for thwarting their "efforts", than it would be dead and now it's their responsibility for making it succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: I would add that, if Trump were to win and the GOP won both parts of the Legislature, they could take even take this bill and make changes to it that would make it, in their eyes, even better. But again, they are so blinded by politics that they either cannot see it or just don't care about the issue as much as they say. I think it's just the opposite. They're not blind to the politics at all. I think they see the politics of it very clearly, and the politics are all about the value of the issue to them, and not at all about the problem it's creating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, chasfh said: I think it's just the opposite. They're not blind to the politics at all. I think they see the politics of it very clearly, and the politics are all about the value of the issue to them, and not at all about the problem it's creating. Blinded *by* the politics, as in that is all they care about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, 1776 said: Obviously. Hence, my reference on the political football. The only reason Biden is being vocal on the issue now is because we’re closing in on November and polls indicate this issue is a top concern. Fine by me. His opponents are loading up on the mere politics of the issue, so I wouldn't want Biden to unilaterally disarm on it. And I think him painting the Republicans into a corner by giving them exactly what they want and making them reject their own words to try to appease Agent Orange and win elections is exactly the right move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 54 minutes ago, mtutiger said: This is another "118th Congress" classic... This is why Republicans stop showing up on nonpartisan media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, GoBlue23 said: I don't play these silly games when it comes to which words can and can't be used to describe something and that if you don't use the correct buzzword, your opinion is invalid. The simple fact is that there are laws on the books that allow people to claim asylum at the border. People seeking a better life are certainly going to take advantage of any chance they have to better their lives and you'd do the same damn thing if you were in their shoes. James Lankford, coauthor of the current Senate bill regarding immigration reform, states that the current staffing at the border cannot handle the ongoing surge in asylum seekers. He states that there currently exists a protocol, my word, that allows current seekers of humanitarian parole to enter the country, literally, uncontested. Apparently the seekers of entry are giving advance notice of their arrival at the border (through what channels I don’t know) and being directed to predetermined entry points. All they are having to state is that they fear for their lives from whence they came. The border patrol is required to accommodate them. If the backlog is such that they can’t screen them within a reasonable time, they are given work permits and given entry into the country. Lankford points out that under the existing surge of human beings at the border, existing procedures as defined by law, are being short circuited because the numbers are overwhelming the border patrol. the authorities are being asked to do what they’re not equipped to do. These immigrants cross the border and the majority of these people are not screened. The majority of these people are not tracked. They are literally disappearing into the population. No background checks, nothing. Over the past several months, over 50 individuals were identified, with the manpower they do have to do background checks, that were on a terrorists watch list. How many did they miss? We have a border crisis, politics aside. These aren’t word games. Edited February 5 by 1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, 1776 said: James Lankford, coauthor of the current Senate bill regarding immigration reform, states that the current staffing at the border cannot handle the ongoing surge in asylum seekers. He states that there currently exists a protocol, my word, that allows current seekers of humanitarian parole to enter the country, literally, uncontested. Apparently the seekers of entry are giving advance notice of their arrival at the border (through what channels I don’t know) and being directed to predetermined entry points. All they are having to state is that they fear for their lives from whence they came. The border patrol is required to accommodate them. If the backlog is such that they can’t screen them within a reasonable time, they are given work permits and given entry into the country. Lankford points out that under the existing surge of human beings at the border, existing procedures as defined by law, are being short circuited because the numbers are overwhelming the border patrol. the authorities are being asked to do what they’re not equipped to do. These immigrants cross the border and the majority of these people are not screened. The majority of these people are not tracked. They are literally disappearing into the population. No background checks, nothing. over the past several months, over 50 individuals were identified with the manpower they do have to do background checks that were on a terrorists watch list. How many did they miss? we have a border crisis, politics aside. These aren’t word games. Fantastic, then house Republicans should vote for this border bill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: Fine by me. His opponents are loading up on the mere politics of the issue, so I wouldn't want Biden to unilaterally disarm on it. And I think him painting the Republicans into a corner by giving them exactly what they want and making them reject their own words to try to appease Agent Orange and win elections is exactly the right move. Yeah, this argument that there may be political reasons behind Biden's support really doesn't change the fact that he's giving them an open net and they are gonna take their ball and go home instead of kicking the ball in. And, in essence, proving all of their critics right. All the other noise doesn't really change that basic fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, GoBlue23 said: I suggest you actually take a look at all of the orders and actions Biden has taken regarding the border since taking office because it's a hell of a lot more than you think. Perhaps. The results are what concern me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Fantastic, then house Republicans should vote for this border bill. I could not agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, 1776 said: Perhaps. The results are what concern me. What are the results? How have Hispanic migrants harmed you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 The comments below his thread are just delusional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: What are the results? How have Hispanic migrants harmed you? Immigrants are typically healthier and have a longer lifespans than Americans. There is also no evidence that they commit crimes at a higher rate. However, there is a settling in period and logistically there may be too many of them coming here too fast. There is a big immigrant housing problem in some states. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 (edited) This is a really good point. Trump may well win in the end, but he hasn't won yet. A lot of hubris on display here Edited February 5 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 For all the conservatives and the trumpublicans screaming about open borders and broken systems I suggest they put their money where their month is and raise taxes to hire more people to improve the process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, 1776 said: In the literal sense there has. In the literal sense they're not open. Even the GOP tweets out the number of border apprehensions and narcotics confiscations which are both antithetical existence proof to the notion that borders are not open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, 1776 said: So the reported 300,000 illegal crossings in December, as reported by numerous media outlets, is a fabricated number? I think it's real but would be way less if the GOP stopped falsely advertising open borders for the cartels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 13 minutes ago, pfife said: I think it's real but would be way less if the GOP stopped falsely advertising open borders for the cartels. This is a really good point. All the rhetoric about so-called "open borders" is basically just an invitation for more people to come than who might normally have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, GoBlue23 said: more than 2.4 million migrants allowed into the country. Most of these individuals are in active removal proceedings in immigration court Seems like everything is working as intended. Maybe we just need to get better at putting people through the system. There is a pretty universal consensus that the law around asylum is broken. These people are not legally immediately deportable - i.e. they are 'legal' as far it goes, because the current law allows them to make asylum claims that in all probability will ultimately be rejected, but the system is too overburdened to ever adjudicate. That works well enough for them because if they can stay in the US and make some money for any number of years then the crossing was a success. There is no single step that will do more to stop the attraction of crossing the border illegally than for economic immigrants to know they will not be allowed to stay while an asylum claim is processed. That is something that the current addresses. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, pfife said: I think it's real but would be way less if the GOP stopped falsely advertising open borders for the cartels. What did our VP see when she was there several years ago…😉 or did I miss that report? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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