The 118th United States Congress

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

Things are always worse when Trump is involved.

Trump is more of the symptom.... the reality is that we have a political system where it's better to have the issue fester as a means to gin up anger versus actually doing anything to fix the issue. That would require governing, which it is clear that the people running the House GOP have no interest in doing. Especially in an election year with a Democratic President.

I would add that, if Trump were to win and the GOP won both parts of the Legislature, they could take even take this bill and make changes to it that would make it, in their eyes, even better. But again, they are so blinded by politics that they either cannot see it or just don't care about the issue as much as they say.

[oblong]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Trump is more of the symptom.... the reality is that we have a political system where it's better to have the issue fester as a means to gin up anger versus actually doing anything to fix the issue. That would require governing, which it is clear that the people running the House GOP have no interest in doing. Especially in an election year with a Democratic President.

I would add that, if Trump were to win and the GOP won both parts of the Legislature, they could take even take this bill and make changes to it that would make it, in their eyes, even better. But again, they are so blinded by politics that they either cannot see it or just don't care about the issue as much as they say.

Then they own it.  With that comes responsibility.  Who needs that?

[1776]

2 minutes ago, romad1 said:

He is involved because he wants to run on the issue. 

Obviously. Hence, my reference on the political football. The only reason Biden is being vocal on the issue now is because we’re closing in on November and polls indicate this issue is a top concern. 
 

[pfife]

There hasn't been unchecked immigration over the last 3 years.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

Then they own it.  With that comes responsibility.  Who needs that?

Yup. Governing is for the birds, performative outrage is where its at.

[pfife]

I think one of the biggest issues in immigration is politicians proclaiming falsely that the border is open.  These politicians have voluntarily become the cartel marketing department and have obviously impacted the flow of migration toward the US.

[1776]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Trump is more of the symptom.... the reality is that we have a political system where it's better to have the issue fester as a means to gin up anger versus actually doing anything to fix the issue. That would require governing, which it is clear that the people running the House GOP have no interest in doing. Especially in an election year with a Democratic President.

You are correct. I would be correct also if I said the same scenario exists on the flip side of your example. 

[1776]

2 minutes ago, pfife said:

There hasn't been unchecked immigration over the last 3 years.

In the literal sense there has. 

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Obviously. Hence, my reference on the political football. The only reason Biden is being vocal on the issue now is because we’re closing in on November and polls indicate this issue is a top concern. 
 

Be that as it may, it seems like a perfect recipe for conservatives to accomplish conservative things in a compromise bill. And the fact that they won't take it kinda says it all.

[CMRivdogs]

Trump had a Republican Congress for two years, 2017-2019, and didn't do a damn thing about the Mexican crossings other than halfway build a half assed wall. No legislation dealing with businesses that intentionally hire illegals or anything resembling funding for enforcement. They only made it harder for seasonal workers who in the past have been legally entitled to enter the country on work visas. Making it harder for seasonal businesses (see hotels and restaurants in tourist friendly workers to find help).

They had their chance, they blew it and if they get another they'll blow it again. These will be the same people complaining that "nobody wants to work anymore" 

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, 1776 said:

You are correct. I would be correct also if I said the same scenario exists on the flip side of your example. 

There was quite a bit of compromise governing during the last Presidential election cycle (ie. the COVID year)

[1776]

4 minutes ago, pfife said:

I think one of the biggest issues in immigration is politicians proclaiming falsely that the border is open.  These politicians have voluntarily become the cartel marketing department and have obviously impacted the flow of migration toward the US.

So the reported 300,000 illegal crossings in December, as reported by numerous media outlets, is a fabricated number? 

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

There was quite a bit of compromise governing during the last Presidential election cycle (ie. the COVID year)

Just to elaborate, I certainly remember Democrats voting on a bill that resulted in receiving a check with Donald Trump's ugly-ass signature on it, for instance...

If the shoe were on the other foot, there's basically zero chance that a GOP Congress would have done that for a Democratic President. None.

So no, I don't see the equivalency here.

[1776]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Be that as it may, it seems like a perfect recipe for conservatives to accomplish conservative things in a compromise bill. And the fact that they won't take it kinda says it all.

And I commented on that. It’s a total fail. Both parties are leveraging, for political purposes, an urgent national security issue. 
That three Senators of different political persuasions could come together on a bill is evidence the issue is urgent. 
And then, the Oklahoma GOP censures Lankford for participating in the creation of this bill. 

 

 

 

[1776]

9 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said:

You know how they were able to report that number?  That's right, because those people were caught and processed according to the laws on the books.  Wouldn't that mean the border is most certainly not "open"? 

Do we have a border crisis or not?

[oblong]

 

[romad1]

24 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Obviously. Hence, my reference on the political football. The only reason Biden is being vocal on the issue now is because we’re closing in on November and polls indicate this issue is a top concern. 
 

Granted, concur.  

[oblong]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

Do we have a border crisis or not?

according to the republicans we don't anymore.  Something happened in the past week or so that made it go away.

[romad1]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

 

I like that.  Except, "[sneer] Chamber of cuckmerce is more like it" is coming from some MAGA channel somewhere probably. 

Edited February 5, 2024 by romad1

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, romad1 said:

I like that.  Except, "[sneer] Chamber of cuckmerce is more like it" is coming from some MAGA channel somewhere probably. 

It's all just incredibly nihilistic, when you get right down to it. The Chamber of Commerce thing is a great example... whether you agree with their general bent as an interest group, they do actually care about policy and have a POV. To paraphrase Walter Sobchak in The Big Lebowski, "say what you want about the USCOC, at least they have an ethos"

Most of these clowns in Congress doing a "five minutes hate" on this bill don't care about any of that or really anything other than getting reelected and / or Presidential politics. 

Just a hell of a system we have. These guys aren't qualified to run a bake stand, let alone be sitting members of Congress.

Edited February 5, 2024 by mtutiger

[1776]

17 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Trump had a Republican Congress for two years, 2017-2019, and didn't do a damn thing about the Mexican crossings other than halfway build a half assed wall. No legislation dealing with businesses that intentionally hire illegals or anything resembling funding for enforcement. They only made it harder for seasonal workers who in the past have been legally entitled to enter the country on work visas. Making it harder for seasonal businesses (see hotels and restaurants in tourist friendly workers to find help).

They had their chance, they blew it and if they get another they'll blow it again. These will be the same people complaining that "nobody wants to work anymore" 

Specific to the last three years, has Biden pushed congress at all on legislation to address the border. Yes, he has in the past several months as the issue is showing up in his polling numbers. Early on he sent Kamala to the border…or not? Nothing came of it either way. So why, until recently, has he not acted on the surge of illegal crossings at the border? Does he not recognize this as a national security issue? 




 

[1776]

8 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said:

I don't play these silly games when it comes to which words can and can't be used to describe something and that if you don't use the correct buzzword, your opinion is invalid.  

The simple fact is that there are laws on the books that allow people to claim asylum at the border.  People seeking a better life are certainly going to take advantage of any chance they have to better their lives and you'd do the same damn thing if you were in their shoes.  

 

In other words, you’re not going to answer the question. 

[CMRivdogs]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

Specific to the last three years, has Biden pushed congress at all on legislation to address the border. Yes, he has in the past several months as the issue is showing up in his polling numbers. Early on he sent Kamala to the border…or not? Nothing came of it either way. So why, until recently, has he not acted on the surge of illegal crossings at the border? Does he not recognize this as a national security issue? 




 

I'm just some old fart sitting in Virginia. I have no clue. All I know is since 2009 anything a Democratic President proposes it will be opposed by the opposition. While Republicans yell and scream and all they accomplish is tax breaks for rich people.

By the way anybody notice that a large number of new home construction workers are Hispanic?

[mtutiger]

13 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said:

The simple fact is that there are laws on the books that allow people to claim asylum at the border. 

Said laws that, if changes were desired, require action by Congress.

You know, the guys who say they don't need to do anything right now.

[1776]

18 minutes ago, oblong said:

according to the republicans we don't anymore.  Something happened in the past week or so that made it go away.

The GOP are political swine, as are the Democrats. As much as I would like to know why Biden, until recently, didn’t care about the border, I would also like to know why grown men and women can fear the reprisals of an unelected blowhard to the point of absurdity.