Hutchibodlker

[RedRamage]

Just thought it might be interesting to look at the three big defensive line options from the last draft.  Obviously this is still very earlier in each player's career and involves different situations so this isn't a perfect apples to apples comparison.  But still:

Travon Walker (15 games)
Tackles (Solo/Assist): 20/25
Sacks: 3.5
Fumbles (Forced/Recovered): 1/0
INTs: 1
Pass Defended: 2
Safety: 0

Aidan Hutchinson (17 games)
Tackles (Solo/Assist): 28/18
Sacks: 9.5
Fumbles (Forced/Recovered): 0/2
INTs: 3
Pass Defended: 3
Safety: 0

Kayvon Thibodeaux (13 games)
Tackles (Solo/Assist): 27/16
Sacks: 4
Fumbles (Forced/Recovered): 2/2
INTs: 0
Pass Defended: 5
Safety: 0

Updated 01/10/2023

[RedRamage]

Updated stats.  Jags were on bye this week so no changes to Walker.

Looking on the NFL player stats page... there are 25 players per page when you sort 'em.  Right now Hutch is on page 2 for both Sacks and INTs.

[RedRamage]

Now that the season is over, I don't think there's any question that Hutchinson had the biggest impact of the three.  He played in the most games, had the most solo tackles, had the most sacks (more than both the other two combined!), had the most INTs.

But, could we make the case for Hutch being DROY?  Here's one article from early December that seems to rank him 3rd: https://withthefirstpick.com/2022/12/08/rookie-watch-2022-nfl-2/

And just for the fun of it... here's some Hutch Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh3MV3Dko4U

 

 

[buddha]

sauce gardner will win defensive rookie of the year because 1) he's been very good, 2) he plays in new york, and 3) the media annointed him weeks ago.

[RandyMarsh]

I see it Sauce, Woolen and Hutch for DPOY and honestly I have no problem with that. Just about every other year Hutch would clearly win but Sauce and Woolen have been unicorns this year at cornerback and while Hutch has been elite the second half of the year he was pretty average the first half where as those two have been elite just about the whole season.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[RandyMarsh]

I also just want to add that I'm clearly happy with Hutch and I think he is the total package I also think it's too soon to write off Walker and Thibs and just anoint Hutch the victor out of the three cause we have to remember that Hutch was always seen as the most pro ready guy while the other two were more raw so it should be expected that Hutch had the strongest 1st year. Lets see in a couple years where things stand.

I have a feeling that in the end all 3 teams will be happy with the players they got although some of Thibs actions on the field kinda concern me like making the "go to sleep" sign while the qb is getting carted off the field, but for now I'll just chalk that up to immaturity. 

[Shinzaki]

Gardner takes away a WR...Hutch gets in the head of the QB (looking at you Rodgers).  I'll take the guy who disrupts the QB

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Gardner takes away a WR...

TBF, a great corner can do more than that - they also seal the ability to run wide and may even provide the occasional blitz. But any defensive player's impact is always also tied to the team. One DE's impact is largely driven by whether his line-mates are also good enough to make doubling him costly. Likewise the impact of a great corner is driven whether the other side of field is soft enough you never have to throw his way.

I still like having a great CB about as much as I like a great DE.

[MichiganCardinal]

13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

TBF, a great corner can do more than that - they also seal the ability to run wide and may even provide the occasional blitz. But any defensive player's impact is always also tied to the team. One DE's impact is largely driven by whether his line-mates are also good enough to make doubling him costly. Likewise the impact of a great corner is driven whether the other side of field is soft enough you never have to throw his way.

I still like having a great CB about as much as I like a great DE.

I think this is what made Houston so dangerous upon his arrival. Teams had grown accustomed to doubling Hutch and - if you successfully contain him - that being enough. The edge across from Hutch before Houston (whether an injured Harris, Austin Bryant, Julian Okwara, or someone else) were being successfully (and easily at times) managed by the opposite tackle. The introduction of a rookie who was playing like he was shot out of a cannon threw off the entire game plan against the Lions pash rush.

Whether Houston can sustain that success or not, the defense would greatly benefit from the introduction of another edge this offseason. Two quality rushers on every down makes both that edge and Hutch better.

[Motor City Sonics]

Nobody was double-teamed more than Hutch this season?    

 

Imagine getting a top-notch Defensive Tackle to go with that.   Should more more opportunities for the Okwaras and Paschal - who looked good at times this season. 

[RedRamage]

Don't forget that we'll get Levi Onwuzurike back in 2023!

*ducks*

[MichiganCardinal]

I think a realistic expectation for the starting defensive alignment next year:

DL: Hutch / McNeill (or rookie) / Paschal / Houston (or rookie) - McNeill or Houston as depth

LB: Rodrigo / Anzalone - Rookie as depth that will be fighting for a starting role by the midway point of the season

DB: Okudah / Free Agent / Rookie / Joseph / Walker

 

It's not perfect. I think Rodrigo & Anzalone are still probably a bottom-16 pair of starting linebackers. In a league where offense wins championships though, I think it would be good enough to win quite a few games.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think this is what made Houston so dangerous upon his arrival. Teams had grown accustomed to doubling Hutch and - if you successfully contain him - that being enough. The edge across from Hutch before Houston (whether an injured Harris, Austin Bryant, Julian Okwara, or someone else) were being successfully (and easily at times) managed by the opposite tackle. The introduction of a rookie who was playing like he was shot out of a cannon threw off the entire game plan against the Lions pash rush.

Whether Houston can sustain that success or not, the defense would greatly benefit from the introduction of another edge this offseason. Two quality rushers on every down makes both that edge and Hutch better.

That's why I say:

If not Jalen Carter than Myles Murphy!!!

[1984Echoes]

42 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think a realistic expectation for the starting defensive alignment next year:

DL: Hutch / McNeill (or rookie) / Paschal / Houston (or rookie) - McNeill or Houston as depth

LB: Rodrigo / Anzalone - Rookie as depth that will be fighting for a starting role by the midway point of the season

DB: Okudah / Free Agent / Rookie / Joseph / Walker

 

It's not perfect. I think Rodrigo & Anzalone are still probably a bottom-16 pair of starting linebackers. In a league where offense wins championships though, I think it would be good enough to win quite a few games.

Houston is 6' 1" 240#. I don't want him as a starter at DE. He'll get worn out defending the run and have nothing left as a pass-rusher. He's actually listed as a LB'er for now which I think is correct. 

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, RedRamage said:

Don't forget that we'll get Levi Onwuzurike back in 2023!

*ducks*

Since they rotate to keep their D-Lineman fresh...

Even if they drafted Jalen Carter I think Levi would still have a prominent role...

if he can stay healthy that is...

[buddha]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think a realistic expectation for the starting defensive alignment next year:

DL: Hutch / McNeill (or rookie) / Paschal / Houston (or rookie) - McNeill or Houston as depth

LB: Rodrigo / Anzalone - Rookie as depth that will be fighting for a starting role by the midway point of the season

DB: Okudah / Free Agent / Rookie / Joseph / Walker

 

It's not perfect. I think Rodrigo & Anzalone are still probably a bottom-16 pair of starting linebackers. In a league where offense wins championships though, I think it would be good enough to win quite a few games.

"free agent" and "rookie" are doing a lot of work there!

i expect walker to be worsr than before and might bot be back 100% until halfway through the season like okwara was.

if anzalone comes back i'll be disappointed.  i think they should look to upgrade.

[buddha]

26 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Since they rotate to keep their D-Lineman fresh...

Even if they drafted Jalen Carter I think Levi would still have a prominent role...

if he can stay healthy that is...

spoiler alert....he cant.

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

"free agent" and "rookie" are doing a lot of work there!

i expect walker to be worsr than before and might bot be back 100% until halfway through the season like okwara was.

if anzalone comes back i'll be disappointed.  i think they should look to upgrade.

The latest update I saw on Walker is that he was ahead of schedule, out of a walking boot, and hopeful to be able to participate in OTAs this May. Definitely ahead of where R.Okwara was, and more in line with where Okudah was.

Whether he is worse than before is hard to say. I think safety is probably a position that is "easier" to come back from such a significant injury (if such a thing can be easier to come back from) because a lot of the position is about vision and recognition over cuts, athleticism, and raw speed (like corner is). He was definitely a leader on the team before his injury and I think he could be a big piece if he's healthy.

[RandyMarsh]

Unfortunately I'm not counting on Levi for anything, I think at best he may provide a good play here or there mixed with a bunch of injury plagued moments but more than likely his career will just be a lost cause. Not all draft picks are going to hit and this one appears to be a rare whiff on Holmes part. 

[MichiganCardinal]

I think Levi will get a chance to make the team in training camp, but he needs to look like a useful player in the NFL, and he needs to stay healthy. He hasn’t shown either of these things through two years. His clock for patience has expired and we can’t waste a spot on the 53-man hoping he magically starts to rapidly develop.

Edited January 18, 2023 by MichiganCardinal

[Motown Bombers]

Derrick Barnes wasn't terrible last year and was better than the year before. I would not be surprised if they chose to give Barnes a larger role and move on from Anzalone. 

[buddha]

the lions had one of the worst defenses in the league last year.  they need major upgrades at almost every position, but especially cornerback and linebacker.

some of that will hopefully come from improvements to young players.  but not all of it.  they need a lot more talent in the back seven to compete.

hopefully they get two starters out of day one and holmes finds a couple diamonds in the rough in the later rounds.

im not counting on levi for anything.  i thinknhe gets cut or an injury settlement.  they'll need multiple dts.  im not counting on okudah to be anything more than serviceable.  walker is coming back from missing an entire year to injury.  jacobs was ok, but nothing more than that.

they need upgrades almost everywhere on defense.

[MichiganCardinal]

24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Derrick Barnes wasn't terrible last year and was better than the year before. I would not be surprised if they chose to give Barnes a larger role and move on from Anzalone. 

I think Barnes' ceiling is as quality rotational depth, which is perfectly fine for a 4th round draft pick. I don't think he should be a starter though. I don't think Anzalone should be a starter either, but the coaching staff seems to adore what he contributes in the locker room. Even Rodrigo, I question how many other NFL teams he would start on. Is the rookie 6th round pick really a steal and a quality NFL player, or is he just the best that a lousy position group here has to offer?

I'm hopeful this is the offseason that the linebacker position is finally addressed in a meaningful way. I'm not holding my breath though. They just don't seem to seriously value the role the way they do offensive skill positions and the lines.

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think Barnes' ceiling is as quality rotational depth, which is perfectly fine for a 4th round draft pick. I don't think he should be a starter though. I don't think Anzalone should be a starter either, but the coaching staff seems to adore what he contributes in the locker room. Even Rodrigo, I question how many other NFL teams he would start on. Is the rookie 6th round pick really a steal and a quality NFL player, or is he just the best that a lousy position group here has to offer?

I'm hopeful this is the offseason that the linebacker position is finally addressed in a meaningful way. I'm not holding my breath though. They just don't seem to seriously value the role the way they do offensive skill positions and the lines.

FWIW, PFF had Rodriguez graded as one of the best rookie LB this year. 

PFF's 2022 NFL All-Rookie Team: Brock Purdy, Aidan Hutchinson, Sauce Gardner and more | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

[Motown Bombers]

Ranking the top draft classes from the 2022 NFL season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

Lions ranked 3rd. Kerby Joseph graded pretty well but there was strong competition at Safety this year. The Lions ranked 3rd without getting much from Williams which was expected and Paschal being injured.