2023 NBA Draft Prelude

[buddha]

21 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

**** had more at the rim attempts than Miller this year and finished at a better rate.  Also a better 3PT shooter and is arguable they best shooter in the draft.

If he can work out his on ball defensive issues he could turn into a nice player.  I would offer Bojan to Dallas for that 10 pick and get us some ****.  

 

 

youre obsessed with ****.

[Deleterious]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

what's the difference between bates and jordan poole coming out of michigan?  the off court stuff for bates for sure, but poole didnt have a good reputation for on court behavior at michigan (beilein wasnt a fan) and poole is much shorter.

bates is tall and can shoot, someone will draft him.  i just hope its not detroit.

Poole was a guard and still weighed 15 pounds more than Bates.  He also had two seasons of shooting 37% from three where Bates has two years of 33%.

Bates is way too slow to play guard in the NBA and doesn't have the handle.  He moves to SF he is then going up against guys who are 30+ pounds heavier than he is with a lot more muscle.  And honestly, he is still too slow to play SF.

It wouldn't totally shock me to see someone take him in the 2nd round.  But my guess is he is undrafted and might end up on a 2-way contract.  Kick around the league a few years and off to Europe/Asia.  

[NYLion]

44 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

The problem is that two minutes later we'll all be complaining: "why are we the "least" athletic team in the league"? Isn't **** just a younger Bojan, in essence?

I don't think that will really be true with Ivey and Duren on the court ("least athletic"... not with those two) but I'm just saying.

I want fast, athletic, excellent D, and can spot up shoot the 3-Lights Out.

I don't care about handle, I don't care about interior creativity. At least a decent passer is probably also a requirement but... I am desperately requesting some 3&D wings at this time.

I don't think Livers is enough.

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't know why handle should even matter with the Pistons. In fact, another ballhandler would probably be detrimental to Cade and Ivey's progress if anything. I'm not saying that they should take a pure 3 and D guy, a little playmaking would be nice too, but I see this talk of Amen Thompson, Black and even Scoot before the lottery (three guys that can't shoot btw) and struggle to see the fit unless the plan is to ship out one of Cade or Ivey or stagger their minutes.

Edited May 19, 2023 by NYLion

[1984Echoes]

11 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Yeah, I don't know why handle should even matter with the Pistons. In fact, another ballhandler would probably ...

I didn't actually state this out loud but this is actually another really good point that should be made.

Too many players demanding the rock so they can dribble it for 10-15 sec's each isn't really much of an offense.

We need some pure shooters who don't need the ball, can catch-n-shoot, and can hit the 3. We have enough ball-handlers.

Oh, and can "D" at an extremely high rate too. 

[RandyMarsh]

You can never have enough ball handlers that can create their own shot and looks for others.

[buddha]

what we really need is for someone to draft derrick lively at #2.  that way - when he fails - we can trade for him in 3 years.

can never have enough 7 foot failures on your team.

[1984Echoes]

19 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

You can never have enough ball handlers that can create their own shot and looks for others.

You can if none of them can actually hit the net.

[NYLion]

38 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

You can never have enough ball handlers that can create their own shot and looks for others.

I just don't see where somebody like Amen Thompson for instance fits in the Pistons 3 guard offense unless you want to relegate Ivey to the bench. He has defensive lockdown potential but how do you distribute the ballhandling between the 3, does Amen slide over to SF? He'd also be the worst shooter of the group and that's with Cade and Ivey being below average long range shooters. Look at Sacramento, they passed on Ivey for Murray likely for these very reasons and it was a seamless fit that helped improve the team.

Unless it's a guy that's surefire BPA like Scoot, and I would have struggled to see the fit with him too, I don't see taking a ballhandler as a priority especially one with a guard mentality. You don't want a guy that's a pure spot up shooter necessarily but I don't think a guy with a primary skill as a ballhandler/playmaker is a fit.

[Shinzaki]

These days...if you can shoot the three, someone will want you...how much they play you or pay you is another matter.  Do you want a guy like Bates who shoots really well vs a guy like Diallo who is stronger and more athletic?  I might want the shooter instead but neither guy is getting huge minutes for me

[buddha]

historical analogies are always imperfect but the "we need a guy who can shoot over a shot maker" got us luke kennard over donovan mitchell.

if scoot was there, we should take him.  are either of the thompson twins a donovan mitchell type?  doesnt sound like it.

that said, i want someone who can shoot!  lol.  "fool me once shame on you...fool me twice, wont get fooled again..." - gdub.

[Deleterious]

If your team just won 17 games you pretty much need everything.  Drafting for fit is dumb.  

[buddha]

9 hours ago, Deleterious said:

If your team just won 17 games you pretty much need everything.  Drafting for fit is dumb.  

its not pistons-fit to want players who can shoot, its the modern nba.

[Deleterious]

Nothing wrong giving value to shooting.  But at the end of the day it is just one metric in evaluating players.  And specifically going to look for it is a bad idea.  I mean you aren't taking **** over one of the Thompson twins just because he can shoot.  

[Betrayer]

I'm fine with **** if Troy manages to get a second pick later in the lottery. I'm not taking him at #5 and certainly not over Hendrix, Whitmore, or even Walker. A lineup of **** and Bogie at Forward might even be worse defensively than Bey and Bogie - so hopefully getting that pick includes shipping Bogie out.

Every team needs shooters, but this was the second worst defensive team in the league. We aren't getting better by just adding more guys that can shoot. Conversely, we don't need to add guys that have to have the ball in their hands to be effective because they can't shoot at all (the twins).

As long as they're in a similar draft tier, I'm prioritizing 2-way players like Hendricks, even if he might have a slightly lower athletic ceiling than the Thompsons and a slightly lower shooting ceiling than ****.

[1984Echoes]

On 5/20/2023 at 11:03 AM, Deleterious said:

...  But at the end of the day it is just one metric in evaluating players.  And specifically going to look for it is a bad idea...

How about defense?

Does that qualify as another metric?

[RandyMarsh]

For the record I like Grady(sick of seeing the censors) because I feel he is more than just an outside shooter. Sure having that elite skill helps minimize the complete bust chance but I think there is far more to his game than just that. I do worry about the defense but he has length, works hard and has that supposed high basketball IQ so having those things could help make him atleast passive there. 

Also a genuine question, unless you're Evan Mobley or something I don't know how easy it is to predict defensive prowess in the NBA. I feel like there are always guys who you think are going to be bad there that end up good and vice versa so its hard for me to just watch a guy in college and just say with confidence that he is going to be a great defender in the pros. 

[Betrayer]

As the days go by I'm leaning more and more towards defensive candidates at the #5 pick. Especially after watching these playoffs and seeing that only once has a team in the bottom 10 on defense gotten past the first round of the playoffs in the past several years. Pistons were #29 in defense last year.

I heard a trade proposal the other day that involved sending Bogie out to Dallas for the #10 pick and I'd be all over that. Our defensive ceiling is capped with Cade and Ivey as our backcourt of the future. I think you simply have to hope that those guys pop as your offensive core and surround them with 3 and D dogs at the Forward positions. Bogie either has to become a bench scorer or get moved while he has value.

Guys like Grady are falling on my board. That's the type of player that would fit great on a team with Lebron or Giannis, but not on a team that already has a defensive ceiling cap unless you're drafting him to just be a bench scorer.

I've also decided to move Hendricks above Whitmore on my draft board (and Del rejoices!). I still love the explosive potential of Cam Whitmore, but his defensive ceiling isn't on the same level as Hendricks who can be that perfect player next to Duren in the starting lineup while also being one of the best shooters in the top 10.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Betrayer

[Shinzaki]

Hendricks strikes me as a touch mechanical...very nice shot, but seems slow.  I do like his defensive potential though.  I really like Whitmore because he looks comfortable playing off the ball, can shoot the pull up three and can attack the rim, where he finished something like 65% of his attempts there.   Defense maybe isn't a strong suit, but the athleticism is there to improve a bit.    There's been criticism of his arm length...he isn't Wemby in that regard...but he's not Emoni Bates either.

On an unrelated note...finally got around to watching "Air" on Amazon Prime...not a fan of Jordan, but it was  fascinating look at one of the great street hustlers, Sonny Vaccaro, and his pursuit of MJ.  Highly recommend it

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Shinzaki

[Deleterious]

 

[Betrayer]

Taylor Hendricks vs Jarace Walker:

 

[Deleterious]

Starting to lean Ausar at #5.

 

[Deleterious]

Good Whitmore news.

I really like Lively.  I think someone is going to get a steal there.  Especially if they pick him up outside of the lottery.

 

[Betrayer]

7 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Starting to lean Ausar at #5.

 

We all better get used to this idea. I’m sure Ollie will want to pay the nepotism forward and we’ll draft one of the twins. 

[Deleterious]

 

[Deleterious]

Want to know how bad the 2024 draft is?  Buzelis is white.