chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 OK, that’s fine, we can leave it there, although don’t be surprised if I continue to acknowledge it at times, and I won’t be surprised when you continue to push back on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 36 minutes ago, chasfh said: OK, that’s fine, we can leave it there, although don’t be surprised if I continue to acknowledge it at times, and I won’t be surprised when you continue to push back on it. Agree to disagree? I can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 8 hours ago, chasfh said: I’m willing to give Harris some rope on the upcoming year since bad teams with bad reputations usually have a tough time getting good free agents to sign, for obvious reasons. They need to prove themselves to be serious about recasting the organization from top to bottom, even beyond announcing the right hires. That’s gonna take time, maybe even more than a year. Worst way to build a team is through free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 13 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: I think we will find out who the third baseman is at the end of March. They're playing the long game with Cabrera's conditioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 5 hours ago, Cruzer1 said: Worst way to build a team is through free agency. Teams that totally avoid free agency don’t win as much as teams that know how to effectively sign key free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 so much internet ink spilled on a nothingburger like jeimar candelario. must be a slow offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 27 minutes ago, chasfh said: Teams that totally avoid free agency don’t win as much as teams that know how to effectively sign key free agents. Sure, but how many franchises can just buy a competitive team? First you have to build a competitive core and talent stream. You don't put the cart before the horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 17 minutes ago, buddha said: so much internet ink spilled on a nothingburger like jeimar candelario. must be a slow offseason. The Boyd signing doesn't really seem like much of anything. He's been injured. Sure, he had his fling out west in 2022, but most of that was rehab & return to the mound. Its almost kind of like he didn't leave. Lorenzen has been the only big shiny new toy. In fairness to Malloy, there does seem to be some promise, but I think most folks are looking for major league ready toys under the offseason holiday shrub. The waiver wire claims, meh, that's just stocking stuffer junk. Its the scratch off lottery tickets that your mother-in-law insists on getting for you even though you'd just rather have the $10 that was used to purchase them. They'll eventually sign nominal free agents like Drury and/or Myers in January. In February there might be a random name free agent that signs a minor league deal & spring training invite with an in/out clause for the end of camp. That'll be the extent of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, buddha said: so much internet ink spilled on a nothingburger like jeimar candelario. must be a slow offseason. How is acquiring Boyd and Lorenzon a slow off-season? That's 40% of their rotatioln and two pitchers that are ready to break out into all-star seasons. Edited December 20, 2022 by Tiger337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 45 minutes ago, Longgone said: Sure, but how many franchises can just buy a competitive team? First you have to build a competitive core and talent stream. You don't put the cart before the horse. Not many I can think of. I would never suggest they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, buddha said: so much internet ink spilled on a nothingburger like jeimar candelario. must be a slow offseason. People feel very strongly about him. He was by far the most interesting non-tender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Just now, chasfh said: People feel very strongly about him. He was by far the most interesting non-tender. "Strongly" may be a strong word here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 57 minutes ago, buddha said: so much internet ink spilled on a nothingburger like jeimar candelario. must be a slow offseason. It's Mrs. Harris fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I think it's less about Candelario and more about the fact that it's 20 Dec. and the hole hasn't been filled yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: "Strongly" may be a strong word here. I don’t know, a lot of people were breathing fire here about how terrible he is and how we had to dump him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 36 minutes ago, casimir said: The Boyd signing doesn't really seem like much of anything. He's been injured. Sure, he had his fling out west in 2022, but most of that was rehab & return to the mound. Its almost kind of like he didn't leave. Lorenzen has been the only big shiny new toy. In fairness to Malloy, there does seem to be some promise, but I think most folks are looking for major league ready toys under the offseason holiday shrub. The waiver wire claims, meh, that's just stocking stuffer junk. Its the scratch off lottery tickets that your mother-in-law insists on getting for you even though you'd just rather have the $10 that was used to purchase them. They'll eventually sign nominal free agents like Drury and/or Myers in January. In February there might be a random name free agent that signs a minor league deal & spring training invite with an in/out clause for the end of camp. That'll be the extent of it. We really don’t have a line on decent free agents. Boyd and Lorenzen are the kind of one-year guys we can hope to flip in July, which is fine because, fast ending to 2021 notwithstanding, that’s the stage we’re in at the moment. It’s going to take a bit of time and some proof of concept to get a decent guy who wants to come here to help us win for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: We really don’t have a line on decent free agents. Boyd and Lorenzen are the kind of one-year guys we can hope to flip in July, which is fine because, fast ending to 2021 notwithstanding, that’s the stage we’re in at the moment. It’s going to take a bit of time and some proof of concept to get a decent guy who wants to come here to help us win for a few years. Both Boyd and Lorenzen can be very solid major league starters, if they're healthy, but that's a big if. On the other hand, every pitcher alive is a health risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I think it's less about Candelario and more about the fact that it's 20 Dec. and the hole hasn't been filled yet. this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Longgone said: Both Boyd and Lorenzen can be very solid major league starters, if they're healthy, but that's a big if. On the other hand, every pitcher alive is a health risk. Sure, and if they prove to be solid starters this year, we might get something decent for them at the deadline. I don’t think either of them fits into the current vision of the rotation of the future, and I don’t know how well they would have to do to force themselves into that conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 23 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I think it's less about Candelario and more about the fact that it's 20 Dec. and the hole hasn't been filled yet. That’s true as things stand now, although he’s also been a hot topic since the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 38 minutes ago, chasfh said: Sure, and if they prove to be solid starters this year, we might get something decent for them at the deadline. I don’t think either of them fits into the current vision of the rotation of the future, and I don’t know how well they would have to do to force themselves into that conversation. With some exceptions, pitchers tend to be more present than future. I don't think there is anything these two pitchers could do in the first half which would convince me they are the future. As you said, they coluld be valuable trade chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, chasfh said: We really don’t have a line on decent free agents. Boyd and Lorenzen are the kind of one-year guys we can hope to flip in July, which is fine because, fast ending to 2021 notwithstanding, that’s the stage we’re in at the moment. It’s going to take a bit of time and some proof of concept to get a decent guy who wants to come here to help us win for a few years. But also, in terms of making up ground toward climbing back .500 (or at least shouting distance of .500), it's still gonna take better performances of those already under contract over signing individual free agents. Free agents are sexy because they are something new to envision in your uniform. It's less sexy to look at the pieces you have on the roster, who you've already developed opinions on and to expect or hope that their play can improve going into the next year. The Tigers do have some candidates for guys who can improve, starting with Austin Meadows and Spencer Turnbull, who functionally may be like free agent acquisitions if they come back and can perform at a reasonable level. Riley Greene can obviously improve (and most seem to expect that), Spencer Torkelson can improve, Jonathan Schoop can improve (and hopefully become a trade piece). Maybe you get a full season of your guy Eddie Rodriguez, assuming he isn't trade bait, etc. Some areas are dicier than others on that front (the outfield outside of Greene concerns me some, third base) and they should look to improve in those areas as they can, but in terms of what would hypothetically deliver the most bang toward overperforming expectations in 2023, it's always been about getting performances out of guys under contract over individual free agent signings. Edited December 20, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 A successful team builds from a solid foundation of homegrown players and trades, and complements them with the right free agent signings that plug the holes that need to be plugged. I would expect the Harris Tigers to do the same. It's what Avila tried to do when he and ownership were bamboozled by the fool's gold that was the post-May 8 2021 Tigers. They thought the homegrowns were done cooking and the long-term free agents would then come in and lead us to the promised land. Wrong on both counts. One of the interesting things I'm going to watch for is whether the overperformances of 2021 or the underperformances of 2022 are closer to reality for certain Tigers who were on those teams. Erik Haase was practically the only guy who took a step up last year versus prior; just about everyone else went splat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 3 hours ago, mtutiger said: I think it's less about Candelario and more about the fact that it's 20 Dec. and the hole hasn't been filled yet. Good thing Opening Day isn't 21 Dec. People are used to Avila signing somebody to fill the hole early in the offseason, wiping his hands and declaring mission accomplished. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 18 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Good thing Opening Day isn't 21 Dec. People are used to Avila signing somebody to fill the hole early in the offseason, wiping his hands and declaring mission accomplished. Correct. And the history drives the point that moving fast hasn't necessarily yielded positive results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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