Week Fifteen: Detroit Lions (6-7) @ New York Jets (7-6)

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Are you the one he said could come fight him?

No (haha, funny...).

Not me.

But I friggin' LOATHE Mike MF'ing Ditka. Hate him. It was probably also a Lions thing (Billy Sims and the Silver Rush couldn't get past him...); but it was definitely an "I hate this A-Hole" thing...

[buddha]

33 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

No (haha, funny...).

Not me.

But I friggin' LOATHE Mike MF'ing Ditka. Hate him. It was probably also a Lions thing (Billy Sims and the Silver Rush couldn't get past him...); but it was definitely an "I hate this A-Hole" thing...

ditka lost 3 of his first 4 to the lions.

and then didnt lose again for 5 years.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

As a fan who trends towards being overly negative, it's hard to put the SOL mantra on the backburner. Dan Campbell has made decisions this year alone where I find myself screaming SOL in the moment towards Campbell. But the fact of the matter is, that one team, with one set of coaches and players has little relation to teams of the past with different coaches and players. Other than being owned by the Ford Family and called the Detroit Lions, there isn't much in common between a Matt Millen assembled team that is coached by Steve Mariucci and a team assembled by Brad Holmes and coached by Dan Campbell.

We all have to take 20-30-40 years of being jaded by losing and SOL and set it aside to judge this team independently and in the moment. And right now, in the moment, they are 6-1 over the last 7 games and are beating some good/winning teams in the process. They are playing good, not great, football on a consistent basis. They have weaknesses for sure and those won't likely be addressed or largely corrected here and now. But the fact that a Steve Mariucci or Wayne Fontes or Jim Schwartz coached team collapsed or underachieved to close out the season or in the playoffs has no bearing on Dan Campbell, this roster, and what they're doing now.

Sometimes I enjoy laughing at this franchise and dunking on them. But I enjoy good, winning football even more than that, no matter how much SOL is ingrained inside me. Right now, this team is doing something I thought they couldn't do this year, certainly not after starting a pathetic 1-6, and that is make a real run at the playoffs.  So for all my criticisms of Campbell's coaching decisions, him costing us a game here or there, the way the Aubrey Pleasant firing was handled, etc. this team is proving a lot of critics wrong, playing good football, and winning. I'm ready to stop bitching or worrying about them collapsing or screwing up for once and just enjoying what I see. Maybe it will turn out to be SOL in the end and they'll find yet another new way to lose and ruin the fun, knocking themselves out of playoff contention. But I'm tired of looking around every corner for the next SOL moment and waiting for the shoe to drop. Let's fucking go Lions!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 21, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[RandyMarsh]

I still don't know if Campbell has actually cost of any games this year with his in game coaching. Has he made costly blunders, particularly towards the end of games that get magnified? Sure, but he very well have made moves throughout the game that other people wouldn't have that put us in position to win in the 1st place. The first Minny game comes to mind, 3 of the Lions TDs were due to him going for it on 4th down where most others would've punted, if it weren't for his aggressiveness we wouldn't have even been in the game but stuff like that gets forgotten about. 

[buddha]

its not an "sol" thing to think its unlikely the lions will win 4 straight or 3 out of 4 to close the season, its more an  acknowledgment of how hard that is to do in the nfl.  most nfl games are decided on thin margins, veritable coin flips.  the odds are in one of the last three games the lions will lose the coin flip.

otoh, it was similarly unlikely they would win 6 of their last 7.  and they did it.  so who knows?

[RandyMarsh]

Just now, buddha said:

its not an "sol" thing to think its unlikely the lions will win 4 straight or 3 out of 4 to close the season, its more an  acknowledgment of how hard that is to do in the nfl.  most nfl games are decided on thin margins, veritable coin flips.  the odds are in one of the last three games the lions will lose the coin flip.

otoh, it was similarly unlikely they would win 6 of their last 7.  and they did it.  so who knows?

Yep, yet that wont stop people from saying SOL if/when they lose one. To me SOL would be losing in some weird heartbreaking fashion and even then I wont mean it in a literal sense more just in jest.

[sagnam]

The Jets handling of the clock at the end of last week was SOL.  Actually the Jets had numerous SOL moments.  Getting a 4th down stop only to go 4 and out and give up the punt return, or the 4th down play with a receiver without anyone within 20 yards of him.  Those were totally SOL plays.

[buddha]

same ol jets.

[Jason_R]

If people are going to blame DC for losing games, how about some credit for winning games? Fake punt from their own 25 in a 7-point game against the division leader? If they get that wrong, the Lions may have lost the game. 

[MichiganCardinal]

26 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

If people are going to blame DC for losing games, how about some credit for winning games? Fake punt from their own 25 in a 7-point game against the division leader? If they get that wrong, the Lions may have lost the game. 

To be fair, he's now 2nd favorite for Coach of the Year at +175, behind only Sirianni. He's got a good chance of winning it if we win these next three. He's getting a lot of credit nationally. I think it's just local that we are being hypercritical and focusing on negatives.... Which isn't just a Detroit thing, I'm sure there are posters in KC Message Boards criticizing Reid and Bienemy and Bills posters criticizing McDermott and Dorsey, especially in game threads.

Can't make everybody happy and part of that job description is being in the crosshairs from opening kickoff to victory kneel on game days.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

To be fair, he's now 2nd favorite for Coach of the Year at +175, behind only Sirianni. He's got a good chance of winning it if we win these next three. He's getting a lot of credit nationally. I think it's just local that we are being hypercritical and focusing on negatives.... Which isn't just a Detroit thing, I'm sure there are posters in KC Message Boards criticizing Reid and Bienemy and Bills posters criticizing McDermott and Dorsey, especially in game threads.

Can't make everybody happy and part of that job description is being in the crosshairs from opening kickoff to victory kneel on game days.

tpfan is on chiefs boards too?????

[Hongbit]

2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

If people are going to blame DC for losing games, how about some credit for winning games? Fake punt from their own 25 in a 7-point game against the division leader? If they get that wrong, the Lions may have lost the game. 

Of all the aggressive calls he’s made over the last two years, this was the worst one in my book.   It was not the right situation to take that kind of risk.  Yet, it worked and turned out to be a pivotal move in winning the game.   Weird game this football.  

[MichiganCardinal]

51 minutes ago, buddha said:

tpfan is on chiefs boards too?????

As the resident Switzerland of the board, I do feel compelled to stick up for TPFan a bit. Me and him got into it last year during one of our ass kickings after he was super negative. Afterwards we talked via PM and he’s a great guy who I’m sure would be an awesome beer buddy to catch a game with.

These threads just get a little intense sometimes for all of us. 😅

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

As the resident Switzerland of the board, I do feel compelled to stick up for TPFan a bit. Me and him got into it last year during one of our ass kickings after he was super negative. Afterwards we talked via PM and he’s a great guy who I’m sure would be an awesome beer buddy to catch a game with.

These threads just get a little intense sometimes for all of us. 😅

i love tp.  i tease him all the time but being a contrarian is his schtick.  he knows it.

and game threads are places to vent.  

[sagnam]

He has made mistakes, but he’s learning and he not afraid.  It’s ok to be critical of his mistakes.  Not everything he does is going to be right.

[Sports_Freak]

6 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I still don't know if Campbell has actually cost of any games this year with his in game coaching. Has he made costly blunders, particularly towards the end of games that get magnified? Sure, but he very well have made moves throughout the game that other people wouldn't have that put us in position to win in the 1st place. The first Minny game comes to mind, 3 of the Lions TDs were due to him going for it on 4th down where most others would've punted, if it weren't for his aggressiveness we wouldn't have even been in the game but stuff like that gets forgotten about. 

Campbell says he messed up by going for the 50+ yard FG late in the game. Punting may been our only chance to win, but that's Monday morning quarterbacking. My choice would have been to go for a first down.

[ben9753]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Campbell says he messed up by going for the 50+ yard FG late in the game. Punting may been our only chance to win, but that's Monday morning quarterbacking. My choice would have been to go for a first down.

I’m happy he admitted it was the wrong call instead of doubling down like most coaches would. Showing that humbleness I think is one of the reasons the guys play so hard for him. He’s authentic, the polar opposite of the baffoon he replaced. 

[Jason_R]

3 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Of all the aggressive calls he’s made over the last two years, this was the worst one in my book.   It was not the right situation to take that kind of risk.  Yet, it worked and turned out to be a pivotal move in winning the game.   Weird game this football.  

I was cringing too, but it worked.

After the game, Fipp made the point that based on their film study and prep, plays like this may not be nearly as risky as they appear. The thing with Campbell is he could have gone into a shell after some of the criticism he received. He didn't. That took guts. 

Also, Fipp hints that Campbell is smarter than he lets on. These risky calls may not be fueled by bravado but by calculation. 

[MichiganCardinal]

3 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Also, Fipp hints that Campbell is smarter than he lets on. These risky calls may not be fueled by bravado but by calculation. 

I think there is definitely something to this. He really leans into the whole "meat head" persona that's painted of him sometimes, whether it's on McAfee joking about being distracted by the wave or in press conferences wearing a helmet or saying he wants a pet lion in Ford Field... I think he's a very smart dude when it comes to football IQ, and I think Ben Johnson is taking a lot of credit for an offense that has a lot of Dan Campbell in it too.

He's made some moves with his timeouts and 4th down elections that I probably wouldn't have, but he's not made any moves that have made me go "WTF ARE YOU DOING" like Schwartz when he threw the challenge flag illegally and cost us a TD against the Texans, or Caldwell when he guarded the sidelines against Aaron Rodgers on the Hail Mary, or Patricia anytime he opened his mouth.

[Jason_R]

10 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think there is definitely something to this. He really leans into the whole "meat head" persona that's painted of him sometimes, whether it's on McAfee joking about being distracted by the wave or in press conferences wearing a helmet or saying he wants a pet lion in Ford Field... I think he's a very smart dude when it comes to football IQ, and I think Ben Johnson is taking a lot of credit for an offense that has a lot of Dan Campbell in it too.

He's made some moves with his timeouts and 4th down elections that I probably wouldn't have, but he's not made any moves that have made me go "WTF ARE YOU DOING" like Schwartz when he threw the challenge flag illegally and cost us a TD against the Texans, or Caldwell when he guarded the sidelines against Aaron Rodgers on the Hail Mary, or Patricia anytime he opened his mouth.

The most regrettable decision was the long field goal in the first Minnesota game. It was not an easy call, but you hope your kicker can make a 54 yard FG in a dome. And, frankly, how do you know if you can trust your kicker if you don't put them in that situation? You wouldn't want to put the whole game on your kicker's shoulders either, so you test him like this when you have the lead. Unfortunately he missed (and got cut).

Even though we can wish Campbell went for it, the real scapegoat in this situation was the secondary who gave up 56 yards and a TD in two plays. 

Anyway, Campbell deserves to be at the top of every coach of the year ballot, and if he coaches the Lions to a Super Bowl victory he will become a coaching legend. Sheila and Rod and Chris Spielman nailed it with him, despite all of the complaining that they should have hired a GM and let the GM hire his coach.

[sagnam]