Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: And since others are suggesting using a draft pick on a Hooker or similar... You need to relentlessly attack and belittle that philosophy. I think you're the problem. Not the ones suggesting to use a draft pick on a QB. Drafting Hooker with a 2nd round pick is the worst idea yet. You're wasting a high draft pick on a QB that may not even be ready to play at the start of the season. You will still need to get a backup QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: So your answer too this situation is that there should be ONE, and ONLY ONE QB on the Lions roster, correct? That seems like a really, really good plan. All NFL teams should follow your blueprint. It seems like... such a winning philosophy. 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: So nobody should EVER draft a QB because all QB's last forever, right? What a BRILLIANT philosophy!!! 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Misrepresentation. Try again. LOL don't come at me with misrepresentation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I've seen more talk about a backup QB, on this forum and other social media, than I ever did when Stafford was here. And when has there been this good of a feeling about the Lions in terms of completeness of the team? When you don't know who the starter is at LT and you've got maybe two respectable WR and nobody but depth pieces as OLB with question marks at kick returner and Safety and maybe an over the hill RB... well, backup QB is pretty far down the list of priorities. But when you have some uncertainty at inside DL, low depth at LB, and are maybe a little lean in the WR room... well lack of QB depth starts to stand out a little more. I don't think there is a single fan here who doesn't think Goff did a great job last year. I don't think there's a single fan here who wouldn't be thrilled if he put up the same sort of year in 2023. I don't think there is a single fan here who thinks we need to ditch Goff in order to be successful for 2023. I think there are people who question is Goff will put up another 2022 year. Has he done it before? Yes. Has he also have poor years before? Yes. It's not crazy talk to wonder if Goff will repeat his success, and wondering about it doesn't mean we hate Goff. It's also not crazy talk to worry that Goff might get hurt. Prior to last year Stafford was a pretty reliable QB. He missed 8 games in the 11 seasons prior to 2022, and yet he still missed half of 2022. Football is a violent sport and season ending injuries happen. That's why you want depth. Wanting competent backup at QB is not hating on Goff. It's also not crazy talk to want an upgrade at QB. It's not crazy talk to want an upgrade at any position. Wanting another DE or another OL or another whomever is not saying that you hate the players currently in that position. It's reasonable to speculate what the team might to do upgrade now and to be ready for the future... especially with a team that looks on paper to have very few holes. This speculation is not hating on Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Stroud/Young/Richardson/Levis would be drafted to be a backup. They’d be drafted to be the 2024 or 2025 starter. Yes that probably means they would be a backup in 2023. But that’s what good teams do at all positions, not just QB. It can be a good thing for the first round BPA added to your team to not be a starter right away when it means you don’t have many holes. There might be a more nuanced argument to make that this is the Lions window, they should add an instant playmaker, and make a run this year at the Super Bowl. But I think the “don’t draft a backup quarterback” argument is more concerned with semantics than substantive differences of opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 27 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I remember just two years ago Goff's contract was so bad that the Rams had to give a 1st round pick to unload it. Now it's considered a good contract. Same thing will happen if he signs an extension. People will lose their minds but the cap will go up, other QBs will sign bigger deals, and the contract won't look that bad. It was done with Stafford's contract. The Rams won a Super Bowl with more cap space being taken up by Goff than Stafford. QB is not the position to get cheap. Maybe but I think at this point in time that some people are skeptical that Goff will be worth top of the market money based on his up and down last 4 seasons. If he puts together another strong year next season and leads them to a playoff win or more, the perception will likely change but until that happens I can understand the concern of extended him at a premium rate. FTR, I went to bat for Goff a lot this season but also understand why there would be questions about committing to him as THE franchise guy long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: LOL don't come at me with misrepresentation. So in other words... You don't like the taste of your own medicine. You've misrepresented the entire discussion/ everyone's position surrounding backup QB. And you continue to do so, at every turn. My statement stands. Edited March 22, 2023 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, NYLion said: Maybe but I think at this point in time that some people are skeptical that Goff will be worth top of the market money based on his up and down last 4 seasons. If he puts together another strong year next season and leads them to a playoff win or more, the perception will likely change but until that happens I can understand the concern of extended him at a premium rate. FTR, I went to bat for Goff a lot this season but also understand why there would be questions about committing to him as THE franchise guy long term. I would sign Goff to an extension now. Similar to what Carr got, but maybe up the annual amount. Carr's contract is only guaranteed for two years. It's structured in a way that the Saints have cap relief now. You can do the same with Goff but maybe give him three guaranteed years and a 5 year contract. He puts up another good season and gets closer to free agency and the cost will go up. We know what Goff's floor is. He still won with the Rams, made the playoffs, and won a playoff game. We also know his ceiling is starting QB for a Super Bowl team. You give him a Carr like contract and you aren't really anchored to him and it still allows you to get a QB in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: So in other words... You don't like the taste of your own medicine. You've misrepresented the entire discussion/ everyone's position surrounding backup QB. My statement stands. I was talking about the money saving aspect of drafting a QB. That's just ridiculous. You have a good QB you sign him. You don't keep drafting QBs for this we can only win with a QB on a rookie contract silliness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Fellas, the Lions have five picks in the top 81. Use them ALL on drafting a QB in a box. That way we can’t miss. We will fill the roles of immediate backup QB as well as developing a couple of future starters and backups who are currently injured. And this will send a message to Goff that he better not have a bad game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I was talking about the money saving aspect of drafting a QB. That's just ridiculous. You have a good QB you sign him. You don't keep drafting QBs for this we can only win with a QB on a rookie contract silliness. I don't remember the last time I've seen QB rookie contract mentioned... I've seen multiple recent posts stating that they (whomever was posting) don't believe Goff would be worth a Max contract ($45-50 mill/ year) which is all the rage nowadays... and with Goff at least a candidate for that level of next contract. Those are two different things, btw, please do not conflate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't remember the last time I've seen QB rookie contract mentioned... I've seen multiple recent posts stating that they (whomever was posting) don't believe Goff would be worth a Max contract ($45-50 mill/ year) which is all the rage nowadays... and with Goff at least a candidate for that level of next contract. Those are two different things, btw, please do not conflate them. That's why I brought up Hurts. He's entering the last year of his contract. He's going to be due a massive contract. Shouldn't the Eagles be drafting a QB instead of giving 20% of their cap to Hurts? Edited March 22, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Fellas, the Lions have five picks in the top 81. Use them ALL on drafting a QB in a box. That way we can’t miss. We will fill the roles of immediate backup QB as well as developing a couple of future starters and backups who are currently injured. And this will send a message to Goff that he better not have a bad game. Maybe on to something. The Lions can carry three QBs on the roster. They can draft three this year with one being Hooker who they can stash on the IR and then have a rookie backup and a rookie third string. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: That's why I brought up Hurts. He's entering the last year of his contract. He's going to be due a massive contract. Shouldn't the Eagles be drafting a QB instead of giving 20% of their cap to Hurts? It depends on: Whether the Eagles have a backup, or no backup for Hurts (the backup issue). And on the perception of Hurts value versus Goff's value (the valuation issue). If the Eagles believe Hurts is worth $45-50 mill/ year then they'll sign him to an extension. If they don't, they won't. Assuming they believe in him as their future QB, AND at the highest valuation, and that they will sign him to his extension... That STILL doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB who they believe will be an effective backup for the team for the next 4-ish years. And BTW... that's the move that YOU are arguing (draft a QB because Hurts will cost 20% of cap). That is NOT what others are arguing. The Goff argument is that he is not WORTH 20% of the cap, and therefore draft a QB. Two different things... and where I maintain that you are misrepresenting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: It depends on: Whether the Eagles have a backup, or no backup for Hurts (the backup issue). And on the perception of Hurts value versus Goff's value (the valuation issue). If the Eagles believe Hurts is worth $45-50 mill/ year then they'll sign him to an extension. If they don't, they won't. Assuming they believe in him as their future QB, AND at the highest valuation, and that they will sign him to his extension... That STILL doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB who they believe will be an effective backup for the team for the next 4-ish years. And BTW... that's the move that YOU are arguing (draft a QB because Hurts will cost 20% of cap). That is NOT what others are arguing. The Goff argument is that he is not WORTH 20% of the cap, and therefore draft a QB. Two different things... and where I maintain that you are misrepresenting... No I think it's strange that people think Hurts is worth 20% of your cap and not Goff. A QB who has only had one great year (which from a passing numbers perspective wasn't any better than Goff) and is a mobile QB who comes at a higher injury risk and typically who don't age well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Maybe on to something. The Lions can carry three QBs on the roster. They can draft three this year with one being Hooker who they can stash on the IR and then have a rookie backup and a rookie third string. GFY. I have never maintained drafting Hooker as the only solution but as a combo of signing a vet (let's call him Wentz) on a 1-year contract as well as drafting Hooker as a future backup. You don't like that idea so you're going to ridicule it? GFY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Just now, Motown Bombers said: No I think it's strange that people think Hurts is worth 20% of your cap and not Goff. A QB who has only had one great year (which from a passing numbers perspective wasn't any better than Goff) and is a mobile QB who comes at a higher injury risk and typically who don't age well. To each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Jalen Hurts is exactly what people are suggesting the Lions do. The Eagles drafted Hurts when they had Carson Wentz signed to a big extension. He sat on the bench as a rookie backup. They replaced Wentz in year two with Hurts. He turned out to be good. He's now going into the final year of his contract. He will cost 20% of your cap. What do you do? The Eagles got at most three years of cap relief with Hurts (not even that since they had to carry Wentz's dead cap). For the people who want to draft a QB for cap reasons. What do the Eagles than do with Hurts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Jalen Hurts is exactly what people are suggesting the Lions do. The Eagles drafted Hurts when they had Carson Wentz signed to a big extension. He sat on the bench as a rookie backup. They replaced Wentz in year two with Hurts. He turned out to be good. He's now going into the final year of his contract. He will cost 20% of your cap. What do you do? The Eagles got at most three years of cap relief with Hurts (not even that since they had to carry Wentz's dead cap). For the people who want to draft a QB for cap reasons. What do the Eagles than do with Hurts? they reminisce about their run to the super bowl with him? i dont know what they'll do, but i suspect they extend hurts. if they still have questions, they can franchise him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Just now, buddha said: they reminisce about their run to the super bowl with him? i dont know what they'll do, but i suspect they extend hurts. if they still have questions, they can franchise him. I figured they would reminisce about the Super Bowl they actually won where Wentz would have been the MVP if he didn't get injured. Why don't they draft a QB now instead of spending 20% of their cap on Hurts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotownWebGuy Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: GFY. I have never maintained drafting Hooker as the only solution but as a combo of signing a vet (let's call him Wentz) on a 1-year contract as well as drafting Hooker as a future backup. You don't like that idea so you're going to ridicule it? GFY. You need to calm the F down.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I figured they would reminisce about the Super Bowl they actually won where Wentz would have been the MVP if he didn't get injured. Why don't they draft a QB now instead of spending 20% of their cap on Hurts? i dont know. they might. perhaps they like hurts better? perhaps they think mobile qbs are more valuable in today's nfl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, MotownWebGuy said: You need to calm the F down.... So does that mean GFY doesn’t stand for Good For You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hzglory Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I figured they would reminisce about the Super Bowl they actually won where Wentz would have been the MVP if he didn't get injured. Why don't they draft a QB now instead of spending 20% of their cap on Hurts? In hindsight they made the right decision drafting Hurts when they had Wentz. They don’t go to the Super Bowl this year if they didn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 4hzglory said: In hindsight they made the right decision drafting Hurts when they had Wentz. They don’t go to the Super Bowl this year if they didn’t. What if Hurts is Wentz? Should the Eagles really commit 20% of their cap to Hurts? Edited March 22, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Mayhem Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 30 minutes ago, Hongbit said: So does that mean GFY doesn’t stand for Good For You? I thought he was calling him goofy but was too lazy to type it all 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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