Detroit Lions Offseason Thread 2023

[Motown Bombers]

I think Chicago is smart by not giving the Bears handouts to stay in the city. Chicago doesn't need the Bears and doesn't need a 70,000 seat stadium plus parking that's vacant 95% of the year. Football stadiums should be in the suburbs and certainly not in a park on the lake. 

[NYLion]

26 minutes ago, buddha said:

they are smartly getting a domed stadium.

soldier field is a shithole and incredibly inconvenient to get to.  and the bears do not own it.  its a ridiculous set up.

the city of chicago had many many chances to work with the bears and get them a new stadium, but they refused becuase the city of chicago is a horribly run city (and the bears are a horribly run team).

now theyre doing the smart thing and moving.  the current administration can call fhe bears names and act indignant, but they did nothing to prevent this from happening.

not that it matters in the long run, she's not likely to win re-election and it will be an upset if she makes the run off.  not impossible, but unlikely.

Oh don't get me wrong, the Bears have needed a new stadium for a long time. I just hate that in places that have had a lot of memorable outdoor games in Chicago and Buffalo, that we'll never see that again once they go to domes. A dome in Chicago and Buffalo just doesn't seem right, doesn't feel like "football" but maybe I'm just being a "Get off my Lawn" guy right now.

[RandyMarsh]

 

[Motown Bombers]

10 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

 

Those are Pre June cuts. For instance if you designate Okwara as a post June 1st cut they would save $11 million. Vaitai would save $9.5 million. Harris would be $6 million. Brockers is $10 million either way and is as good as gone. Those would be the ones I would consider for cutting. Restructuring Goff can save as much as $12 million. Restructuring Ragnow could save as much as $8 million. Lions have options. 

[RandyMarsh]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Those are Pre June cuts. For instance if you designate Okwara as a post June 1st cut they would save $11 million. Vaitai would save $9.5 million. Harris would be $6 million. Brockers is $10 million either way and is as good as gone. Those would be the ones I would consider for cutting. Restructuring Goff can save as much as $12 million. Restructuring Ragnow could save as much as $8 million. Lions have options. 

So we'd save more money cutting after June 1st? Isn't it kinda a catch 22 though in a sense we may save more but atleast theoretically there would be less to spend the savings on since the top free agents would presumably been signed already?

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

So we'd save more money cutting after June 1st? Isn't it kinda a catch 22 though in a sense we may save more but atleast theoretically there would be less to spend the savings on since the top free agents would presumably been signed already?

Each team can designate up to two players as a post June 1st cut. So in the Lions case it would likely be Okwara and Vaitai. Basically those players are released immediately but the team releasing them carries their cap charge until June 2nd. It wouldn't help the Lions in the immediate since those cap savings aren't realized until June 2nd and likely wouldn't affect who the Lions sign but gives them more breathing room during the season. 

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Each team can designate up to two players as a post June 1st cut. So in the Lions case it would likely be Okwara and Vaitai. Basically those players are released immediately but the team releasing them carries their cap charge until June 2nd. It wouldn't help the Lions in the immediate since those cap savings aren't realized until June 2nd and likely wouldn't affect who the Lions sign but gives them more breathing room during the season. 

Brockers and Okwara.

Not Vaitai and Okwara.

Vaitai is quite a bit more complicated. I put him in the restructure camp with Goff & Ragnow... at least until I see differently coming directly from the Lions.

Just my opinion.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Brockers and Okwara.

Not Vaitai and Okwara.

Vaitai is quite a bit more complicated. I put him in the restructure camp with Goff & Ragnow... at least until I see differently coming directly from the Lions.

Just my opinion.

lets wait and see on vatai.  they need a guard, he's a good clubhouse guy, sewell apparently loves him.  he'd probably restructure.

all depends on the medicals on the back.  back injuries in football players (especially big guys) arent good.  i want him to come back because they need a road grader guard, but i'm skeptical he will be able to play at a high level again.

[MichiganCardinal]

Vaitai probably won’t be decided until after the draft. If we take a guard in the first three rounds, Vaitai probably gets cut and we have that rookie start at RG… otherwise, he’s brought back.

[1984Echoes]

If he's healthy, I believe he's back (no pun intended...).

Even if you draft a top 3-round guard... you keep Vaitai until he gets pushed out of his starting position by health or the new guy...

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by 1984Echoes

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

If he's healthy, I believe he's back (no pun intended...).

Even if you draft a top 3-round guard... you keep Vaitai until he gets pushed out of his starting position by health or the new guy...

I think if they’re taking a guard that high they’re expecting them to be a day one starter. Jonah Jackson is the last guard we took that early and he started his rookie season.

If you can afford to keep Vaitai, I’m not opposed to the rookie being a backup interior offensive linemen. But I don’t want to keep paying Vaitai OT money if there is a perfectly capable guard sitting on the bench.

[buddha]

6 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think if they’re taking a guard that high they’re expecting them to be a day one starter. Jonah Jackson is the last guard we took that early and he started his rookie season.

If you can afford to keep Vaitai, I’m not opposed to the rookie being a backup interior offensive linemen. But I don’t want to keep paying Vaitai OT money if there is a perfectly capable guard sitting on the bench.

graham glasgow too.

[RandyMarsh]

I believe Warford started right away as well but that was like 10 years ago. 

[1984Echoes]

Right...

But you can't expect everything to come up perfect roses.

So, if they draft a top-3 round guard that they expect to start:

A) They still might not drop Vaitai, at least right away... because you never know if a new guy (especially a rookie) will catch on right away, and injuries also happen...

B) Once the rookie, and ONLY once the rookie looks likely to take over a starting spot, would you then "move on" from the existing guy... but then the team would still need backup coverage for that move. So, let's say Kraemer is coming on and they believe he would be a more than adequate backup... AND a rookie is pushing to be a starter, would you make that move. That could be training camp, or early in the season, or after an injury...

But I don't think that happens before training camp even starts. If it does happen before then... I'm guessing it would be an injury settlement which is not the same as an outright release. There would be a reason/ circumstances for an injury settlement. Aside from injury, I don't believe they'll release Vaitai until after the 2023 season.

But that's just my guess.

[Hongbit]

I don’t get the Vaitai love.  Makes very little sense to me.  He’s overpaid and is coming off a serious injury.  He’s had 1 good season here in 3 years.   There are an abundance of cheaper options and this is absolutely an area where they can upgrade, get younger, and cut salary all at the same time.  

The good news is I can’t see any way the team will bring him back at $12m salary and will almost certainly ask to renegotiate for less.  Hopefully he says no and the team cuts him and he shops the market.  

Once again, Penei Sewell will be a 3rd year player coming off a pro bowl.  Not only does he not require a veteran mentor anymore, it’s probably time for him to be the mentor for a young guy they draft.  He’s an absolute professional as well and won’t be bothered one bit if the team cuts his uce Vaitai for salary cap reasons.  

[KL2]

12 hours ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t get the Vaitai love.  Makes very little sense to me.  He’s overpaid and is coming off a serious injury.  He’s had 1 good season here in 3 years.   There are an abundance of cheaper options and this is absolutely an area where they can upgrade, get younger, and cut salary all at the same time.  

The good news is I can’t see any way the team will bring him back at $12m salary and will almost certainly ask to renegotiate for less.  Hopefully he says no and the team cuts him and he shops the market.  

Once again, Penei Sewell will be a 3rd year player coming off a pro bowl.  Not only does he not require a veteran mentor anymore, it’s probably time for him to be the mentor for a young guy they draft.  He’s an absolute professional as well and won’t be bothered one bit if the team cuts his uce Vaitai for salary cap reasons.  

This the vaitai love is silly. It's an easy spot to save a lot of money and with the other guys on the line you're probably not gonna see a massive drop off with a 6th round rookie or a 2 million signey

[MichiganCardinal]

 

[MichiganCardinal]

Also this. Glenn is out in Arizona, which leaves only Indy to possibly poach him.

Edited February 6, 2023 by MichiganCardinal

[Motown Bombers]

15 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

 

Seems like a good enough hire. Looks like Montgomery coached Randel-El in Pittsburgh. 

[RandyMarsh]

ESPN put out its best qb bargains off their compensation vs. Value on field and Goff was number 3 among the non rookie deals trailing only Mahomes and Allen.

[RedRamage]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Seems like a good enough hire. Looks like Montgomery coached Randel-El in Pittsburgh. 

I would agree... looked him up on Wiki and he's got experience at many levels/positions.

WR coach in both college and NFL, OC and "associate head coach" at Duke, Head Coach for two year at East Carolina (though not with good results), and RB for 2 years with the Colts.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

So I ran a mock off-season of sorts using this cap simulator from Over the Cap and the PFF Mock Draft Simulator. My numbers are probably nowhere close to accurate and I have zero idea who we are and aren't resigning. So this is a shot in the dark. After resigning all of our own guys we have $22,027,438 in cap space or free agents and draft picks. That number went down by $12 million after making a big splash signing of James Bradberry at Corner. In the mock draft, Jalen Carter fell to me and so there was no way I wasn't drafting him.

Cut Pre 6/1:

Romeo Okawara - Saves $7.5 approx. million in cap space

Michael Brockers - Saves approx. $10 million in cap space

Charles Harris - Saves approx. $4 million in cap space

Cut Post 6/1:

Halapoulivaati Vaitai - $9.5 million in cap space

*I thought about trying to restructure Vaitai's deal to so we could extend out the cap hit for this season. I wouldn't be opposed to him returning at all given the right cap number.

Resigned:

Nate Sudfeld (QB) - 1 year, $1.08 million with $1.08 million guaranteed

Jamal Williams (RB) - 3 Years, $12.5 million with $8.25 million guaranteed

Justin Jackson (RB) - 1 year, $1.25 million with $1.25 million guaranteed

Craig Reynolds (RB) - 1 year, $980,000 with $980,000 guaranteed

DJ Chark (WR) - 3 years, $35 million with $24 million guaranteed

Brock Wright (TE) - 3 years, $7.5 million with $4 million guaranteed

Shane Zylsta (TE) - 2 years, $1.25 million with $600,000 guaranteed

Matt Nelson (LT) - 1 year, $1 million with $1 million guaranteed

Dan Skipper (C/G) - 1 year, $900,000 with $900,000 guaranteed

Evan Brown (C/G) - 3 years, $7.5 million with $4 million guaranteed

Tommy Kraemer (G) - 1 year, $850,000 with $850, guaranteed

Isiah Buggs (DE) - 2 years, $3 million, with $600,000 guaranteed

John Cominsky (DT) - 2 years, $4 million with $2 million guaranteed

Josh Woods (LB) - 1 year, $1.25 million with $1.25 million guaranteed

Mike Hughes (CB) - 2 years, $1.625 million with $425,000 guaranteed

DeShaun Elliot (S) - 2 Years, $3 million with $1 million guaranteed

CJ Moore (S) - 1 year, $825,000 with $825,000 guaranteed

Bobby Price (S) - 1 year, $925,000 with $925,000 guaranteed

Not re-signed:

Alex Anzalone, Amani Oruwariye, Anthony Pittman, Austin Bryant, Benito Jones, Chris Board, Michael Badgley, Scott Daly, Ross Pierschbacher, Will Harris

Big Splash Free Agent:

James Bradberry (CB) - 2 years, $24 million with $16.5 million guaranteed

*I wanted Jamel Dean here but the asking price, per PFF, looks to be around $17 million/per year with a $47.5 million guaranteed price tag. I didn't have the cap space to offer Dean that type of deal and so I opted for the cheaper, older, less talented but still very good James Bradberry instead.

Draft:

Edited February 8, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[1984Echoes]

I would do a few things differently but...

No bad.

Where do you see asking prices for FA's? (Or is that PFF subscription...?)

[RandyMarsh]

Walking away with Carter and Porter along with Bradberry in FA would be the dream scenario for me. 

[buddha]

3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

So I ran a mock off-season of sorts using this cap simulator from Over the Cap and the PFF Mock Draft Simulator. My numbers are probably nowhere close to accurate and I have zero idea who we are and aren't resigning. So this is a shot in the dark. After resigning all of our own guys we have $22,027,438 in cap space or free agents and draft picks. That number went down by $12 million after making a big splash signing of James Bradberry at Corner. In the mock draft, Jalen Carter fell to me and so there was no way I wasn't drafting him.

Cut Pre 6/1:

Romeo Okawara - Saves $7.5 approx. million in cap space

Michael Brockers - Saves approx. $10 million in cap space

Charles Harris - Saves approx. $4 million in cap space

Cut Post 6/1:

Halapoulivaati Vaitai - $9.5 million in cap space

*I thought about trying to restructure Vaitai's deal to so we could extend out the cap hit for this season. I wouldn't be opposed to him returning at all given the right cap number.

Resigned:

Nate Sudfeld (QB) - 1 year, $1.08 million with $1.08 million guaranteed

Jamal Williams (RB) - 3 Years, $12.5 million with $8.25 million guaranteed

Justin Jackson (RB) - 1 year, $1.25 million with $1.25 million guaranteed

Craig Reynolds (RB) - 1 year, $980,000 with $980,000 guaranteed

DJ Chark (WR) - 3 years, $35 million with $24 million guaranteed

Brock Wright (TE) - 3 years, $7.5 million with $4 million guaranteed

Shane Zylsta (TE) - 2 years, $1.25 million with $600,000 guaranteed

Matt Nelson (LT) - 1 year, $1 million with $1 million guaranteed

Dan Skipper (C/G) - 1 year, $900,000 with $900,000 guaranteed

Evan Brown (C/G) - 3 years, $7.5 million with $4 million guaranteed

Tommy Kraemer (G) - 1 year, $850,000 with $850, guaranteed

Isiah Buggs (DE) - 2 years, $3 million, with $600,000 guaranteed

John Cominsky (DT) - 2 years, $4 million with $2 million guaranteed

Josh Woods (LB) - 1 year, $1.25 million with $1.25 million guaranteed

Mike Hughes (CB) - 2 years, $1.625 million with $425,000 guaranteed

DeShaun Elliot (S) - 2 Years, $3 million with $1 million guaranteed

CJ Moore (S) - 1 year, $825,000 with $825,000 guaranteed

Bobby Price (S) - 1 year, $925,000 with $925,000 guaranteed

Not re-signed:

Alex Anzalone, Amani Oruwariye, Anthony Pittman, Austin Bryant, Benito Jones, Chris Board, Michael Badgley, Scott Daly, Ross Pierschbacher, Will Harris

Big Splash Free Agent:

James Bradberry (CB) - 2 years, $24 million with $16.5 million guaranteed

*I wanted Jamel Dean here but the asking price, per PFF, looks to be around $17 million/per year with a $47.5 million guaranteed price tag. I didn't have the cap space to offer Dean that type of deal and so I opted for the cheaper, older, less talented but still very good James Bradberry instead.

Draft:

why re-sign all those running backa and then draft one?