Detroit Lions Offseason Thread 2023

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

In the scenario I posted we'd get Simmons and pick 11 so it basically be like giving up 18 and sliding back 5 spots.

And yeah we could just draft Carter but he of course has question marks where as we would be getting the sure thing with Simmons.

he's also older and about to become extremely expensive.

there's your trade off.  depends how they see the cap evolving.  i know people dont believe in the cap, but there does come a time when teams have to pay the piper.

how many huge contracts can the lions have?  didnt we have this issue when we had stafford, suh, and calvin on massive deals?  if we trade for simmons and he signs a huge extension, we'll have goff, simmons, sewell, decker, ragnow, st brown, hutch...how many more big deals can they take?

otoh, if you think youre one player away and he fits the scheme to a "t", maybe you take that chance that you lose one of the above guys?

[Motown Bombers]

I brought up the Eagles earlier when comparing them to the Lions and how they are similar. The Eagles traded the 18th pick last year to Tennessee for AJ Brown. 

[Hongbit]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

he's also older and about to become extremely expensive.

there's your trade off.  depends how they see the cap evolving.  i know people dont believe in the cap, but there does come a time when teams have to pay the piper.

how many huge contracts can the lions have?  didnt we have this issue when we had stafford, suh, and calvin on massive deals?  if we trade for simmons and he signs a huge extension, we'll have goff, simmons, sewell, decker, ragnow, st brown, hutch...how many more big deals can they take?

otoh, if you think youre one player away and he fits the scheme to a "t", maybe you take that chance that you lose one of the above guys?

If they did it now, they would have at least 3 years with this core roster and maybe a 4th with a few minor shuffles and then they’d be in hell.  

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

he's also older and about to become extremely expensive.

there's your trade off.  depends how they see the cap evolving.  i know people dont believe in the cap, but there does come a time when teams have to pay the piper.

how many huge contracts can the lions have?  didnt we have this issue when we had stafford, suh, and calvin on massive deals?  if we trade for simmons and he signs a huge extension, we'll have goff, simmons, sewell, decker, ragnow, st brown, hutch...how many more big deals can they take?

otoh, if you think youre one player away and he fits the scheme to a "t", maybe you take that chance that you lose one of the above guys?

Lions have projected $86 million in cap space next year which would be the 11th most. Some of those guys you will just have to move on from. Decker being one. There's still 3-4 years before Hutchinson's new contract would kick in. Simmons probably gets a 4-5 years deal now so not much overlap there. Ragnow is under contract through 2026. His contract is already factored into future cap projections. 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

if we trade for simmons and he signs a huge extension, we'll have goff, simmons, sewell, decker, ragnow, st brown, hutch...how many more big deals can they take?

I guess that's where you have to decide how much you can help yourself in the draft. If I have enough DT on my board I like that I judge are going to be there when I pick, than that is the most important driver of what I'm will to pay for FA at that position. 

[buddha]

35 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I brought up the Eagles earlier when comparing them to the Lions and how they are similar. The Eagles traded the 18th pick last year to Tennessee for AJ Brown. 

i'm fine with trading 18 for a difference maker if it fits in their future plans.

ed oliver's name was mentioned on a podcast today.  he's a good kalijah clancy comp if you wanted a finished product now, although simmons seems like a better player.

[RandyMarsh]

In regards to future money for guys as of now the only guys I feel like we would have to pay for are Sewell and Hutch. I think those two are the true cornerstone foundations that you can't afford to lose. 

Guys like Ragnow, Jackson and even St. Brown are great and I certainly wouldn't choose to lose them but at the same time I'm confident Holmes would be able to find suitable replacements in the draft if need be. 

[MichiganCardinal]

 

[RandyMarsh]

End of an era. For real though he is an example of how fortunes can change quickly for players. About a year ago he looked like a potential young foundation piece that Glenn and the Lions developed then by October we were all ready for him to get out of town. 

[Motown Bombers]

Another former Lion heading to New York. 

 

[MichiganCardinal]

6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

End of an era. For real though he is an example of how fortunes can change quickly for players. About a year ago he looked like a potential young foundation piece that Glenn and the Lions developed then by October we were all ready for him to get out of town. 

I think my fondest AO24 memory from 2022 was yelling “get off the f###ing field!” at my TV in one week, and being pleasantly surprised to see him be a healthy scratch the following week.

[Hongbit]

18 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

 

Good for him.  I’m Interested to see the terms.  I wonder if he has to pay them to play.  

[Hongbit]

7 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think my fondest AO24 memory from 2022 was yelling “get off the f###ing field!” at my TV in one week, and being pleasantly surprised to see him be a healthy scratch the following week.

He was painful to watch in that Vikings game.

[Motown Bombers]

Lions have the 4th most cap space remaining and more than they started with despite signing multiple free agents. 

 

[RedRamage]

45 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

 

So, which ex-Lion ends up with more catches for the Giants: Galladay or Oruwariye?

[RandyMarsh]

Btw the NFL announced that the draft next year will be held on April 25th-27th. Im not sure if they already mentioned this before but it will be at Campus Martias and Hart Plaza. No word on when tix go on sale though. 

[Motown Bombers]

The draft should have been in Detroit last year. I have no interest to go see the Lions draft 32nd. 

[djhutch]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The draft should have been in Detroit last year. I have no interest to go see the Lions draft 32nd. 

I see what you did there.

[RandyMarsh]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The draft should have been in Detroit last year. I have no interest to go see the Lions draft 32nd. 

Considering the draft is held in KC this year that will be back to back years where the SB winning team gets to host the draft. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I like the idea of acquiring Jeffery Simmons a lot as he fills our biggest remaining need on the team, an interior pass rusher and run stopper. That said, the asking price for Simmons shouldn't be two 1sts. If AJ Brown only netted Tennessee one 1st then why would Simmons be deserving of two? #18 overall for Simmons or #18 plus a 3rd or later round pick should get it done if the Deforest Buckner trade is any market indicator.

If we don't get back Tennessee's pick at #11 and we have to trade both #6 and #18 I'd be out on Simmons. #6 + #18 is a massive overpay for him. I even think that the asking price for moving up for Tennessee should potentially include Detroit hanging onto the pick at #18 and instead giving up the two 2nd round picks instead. Tennessee has to pay a price for moving up and compensating us for dropping out of the top 10. I think that compensation would be us getting to hang onto #18 and them instead getting our two 2nd round picks.

So a trade in that scenario would look like this.

Detroit gets: Jeffery Simmons + Tennessee's 2023 pick at #11

Tennessee gets: Detroit's 2023 pick at #6 + picks #48 & #55 in the 2nd round

[NYLion]

I'd give up #18 for Simmons in a heartbeat if the Titans were willing. I'd even consider adding a future 3rd or something like that if need be. An elite DT right in the middle of his prime would be a perfect add. Yeah they'd have to pay him after next season but is something that I'd be more than willing to do. He's only 26 and DT's generally age pretty well.

With that said, I just don't see Holmes going THAT big but then again I didn't think he would do much more than re-sign guys during free agency and he wound up making about 3 more big moves than I thought he'd make so I'll probably be wrong about this too.

Edit: I'd probably do the above proposed #6+#18 for Simmons+#11 as well. Actually, I'd definitely do that. They'd have #11, Simmons both of their 2nds and 3rd. Sign me up for that.

Edited March 23, 2023 by NYLion

[djhutch]

I could see this happening simply because I don't think Jalen Carter is in the cards. Too many concerns for #6. This is 1 reason you stockpile picks.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

44 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I'd give up #18 for Simmons in a heartbeat if the Titans were willing. I'd even consider adding a future 3rd or something like that if need be. An elite DT right in the middle of his prime would be a perfect add. Yeah they'd have to pay him after next season but is something that I'd be more than willing to do. He's only 26 and DT's generally age pretty well.

With that said, I just don't see Holmes going THAT big but then again I didn't think he would do much more than re-sign guys during free agency and he wound up making about 3 more big moves than I thought he'd make so I'll probably be wrong about this too.

Edit: I'd probably do the above proposed #6+#18 for Simmons+#11 as well. Actually, I'd definitely do that. They'd have #11, Simmons both of their 2nds and 3rd. Sign me up for that.

What price do the Titans pay though for moving up to #6 and what compensation do we get for moving down to #11? Because the Deforest Buckner trade set the market for this type of trade and that was a straight up swap of Buckner for the Colts 1st round pick. This would not be. In this scenario, we are expected to move back 5 spots and not get any compensation for it. The compensation for the Titans trading Simmons is the #18 pick, but where is our compensation for moving back 5 spots?

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Motown Bombers]

I see one of two options, Lions trade the 6th pick for Tennessee's 11th pick and Simmons plus some late round filler on either side, or the Lions trade 18 for Simmons and maybe some other late round pick. Chicago went 1 to 9 and got two 1sts plus DJ Moore and other picks. Simmons is more valuable than Moore but you also aren't getting an additional 1st rounder so it seems fair. 

[NYLion]

33 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

What price do the Titans pay though for moving up to #6 and what compensation do we get for moving down to #11? Because the Deforest Buckner trade set the market for this type of trade and that was a straight up swap of Buckner for the Colts 1st round pick. This would not be. In this scenario, we are expected to move back 5 spots and not get any compensation for it. The compensation for the Titans trading Simmons is the #18 pick, but where is our compensation for moving back 5 spots?

The Buckner trade was #13 I believe so I'm just spitballing that if the Titans want something in addition to #18 that maybe a swap of 6 and 11 would complete the trade. Maybe the Lions could add an additional mid round pick if that's preferrable.