Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 The logic is just nonsense. Hey Miami, we're going to draft a franchise QB because we are moving on from Stafford, however, if you trade with us we'll completely change that plan and keep Stafford and let you draft the franchise QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 If this is all a bluff to get another team to trade up, that team should call Holmes on it and offer to trade for Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 If I remember correctly, Miami did just that and asked about trading for Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Arizona is drafting 3rd this year, same as the Lions in 2019, and no one and I mean no one is going to trade with Arizona because they think they may draft a QB and move on from Kyler Murray. They are only trading with Arizona to get ahead of the Colts. That's how this works. No one believes Arizona will take a QB because they are locked into Murray and everyone knows that. The Lions aren't locked into Goff in the same way the Cardinals are with Murray. I do believe that GMs out there do speculate on who might be ranked where on another team's draft board, especially when it comes to top ten picks. So there could be a team, or multiple, that think the Lions have Anthony Richardson or Will Levis ranked high on their board, but not as their #1 or #2 guy. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that a team trades with the Lions to ensure they get their guy (Richardson or Levis) and the Lions don't take him. Example, if a team like the Titans was hell bent on getting a new QB, and they really liked Richardson or Levis, yet they thought the Lions might snag one of them because of the way Brad Holmes acted, I don't think it's unrealistic to think they'd trade with us to get their guy. If I'm wrong about the mindset of other GMs and this then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: If this is all a bluff to get another team to trade up, that team should call Holmes on it and offer to trade for Goff. Actually the more I think about it if Holmes truly did want a QB it probably would be in his best interest to act like he doesn't want one so a team doesn't jump him and take him. So the fact that he is being coy and hinting they may be looking at one at 6 tells me that they actually aren't. edit: Or I could be looking way too much into this and Holmes is just being honest and saying how he legit feels about what to do in the draft. Edited March 28, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: If this is all a bluff to get another team to trade up, that team should call Holmes on it and offer to trade for Goff. You're assuming they value Goff as or more highly than they would a rookie QB. They wouldn't just call his bluff to call it if they don't value Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if they told Goff they will take Stroud if he falls to them. But he won’t fall that far and Detroit won’t go get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 59 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: If they do indeed draft a QB with the intention of him replacing Goff in a year or 2 hopefully Goff handles it like an adult like Alex Smith and Jimmy G did when their teams drafted QBs early and not throw a fit like Rodgers did when the Pack drafted Love. Of course Rodgers threw a fit but did put up back to back MVP seasons so I guess if Goff responds like that on the field for us I'll forgive how he acts off of it. I think they’re already ahead of that by saying that Goff is aware of the Lions intentions. Rodgers learned the Packers were taking Love on draft day along with everyone else. Presuming the Lions said “hey we love you, our plan is to win a lot of football games with you, but full disclosure, there is one guy who we would take at #6 if he is there that would involve us moving on from you in a year or two” I think it creates a whole new dynamic from the toxicity Green Bay invited but surprising their MVP QB with his replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: That's not how it works. If anything, it would make teams want to trade with Seattle to get ahead of Detroit. No one is going to believe that yeah we are serious about drafting a QB, but if you trade with us, we will completely change our plans. I think the idea is that the Lions have addressed all (most?) of their needs in FA so they are ready to go with best player available and if that BPA is a QB, well then... that's who they'll draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I generally am of the BPA philosophy but I don't agree with it for QB when you already have a good one. Unlike other positions that BPA can still contribute to the team even if there are better options on the depth chart but QB can't unless there is an injury. To me the QB would have to be head and shoulders above everybody else on your board and a guy that you strongly feel you can't miss out on. If its close or if you think he's just the best out of a so so batch of players then I'm not taking him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: The logic is just nonsense. Hey Miami, we're going to draft a franchise QB because we are moving on from Stafford, however, if you trade with us we'll completely change that plan and keep Stafford and let you draft the franchise QB. The logic to trade back isn't hey Miami, it's hey San Diego. And you also don't have to move on from Stafford in year one, you can sit the rookie behind him to dilute the QB market for 2020 and then trade him in the 2021 offseason. I think if you wanted to trade back in 2020 San Diego, not Miami, was your best trading partner. I think the logic was hey San Diego, you and about 2-3 other teams (Miami, Philly) are in the market for and desperate need of a QB. You've got both us and Miami ahead of you who could pick a QB. We know you wanted one of Tua or Herbert, but now you won't get either because we're about to draft one of the two. We are also hanging onto Stafford and will let the rookie sit behind him for a year, so that further dilutes the market of quality staters for you. So unless someone gives us a really great offer for Stafford, he's wearing a Lions uniform next year. However, we are equally interested in trading back to your draft spot, as much as we are in taking a QB at #3. If you trade back with us it gives you the chance to pick your QB ahead of Miami and stops us from taking your guy. If you don't trade back you're not getting Tua, Herbert or Stafford. You are going to be stuck drafting the third QB on your board or desperately looking elsewhere for your stater. Who knows how San Diego valued Jalen Hurts. But based on where Hurts was drafted, it couldn't have been a first round grade. Quinn screwed up because both San Diego and Miami knew he was never seriously going to take a QB. He gave them no incentive to trade with him. I think Holmes is being smart here because he's signalling to teams that all options are on the table, including drafting a QB. Who would San Diego have put out as their starter if Quinn had taken Herbert and the Dolphins Tua? Quinn needed to either call their bluff by drafting a QB or threaten to pull the trigger to get them to move up. Teams have multiple plans for draft night, Quinn could have signaled to San Diego he was equally interested in taking a QB or trading back and it was up to them what he did. If they wanted to let the Lions trade back then they would get their guy. If not, they'd be stuck scrambling elsewhere to find a starter. Good luck with Tyrod Taylor starting in week one. Edited March 28, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I agree with most of you that the best strategy is for other teams to not know what you are thinking. If you make teams think you are willing to take a QB with the 6th pick because its the BPA on your board then a team will definitely try to trade with you. The Lions are just in a unique situation that they can easily take a QB with 6 because they have so many early picks. Although if a team offers you a good trade package, your good with trading back as well. This isn't just for the 6th pick, it can be for the whole draft as well with other QB's. Now for the whole Quinn situation. The biggest mistake was bringing him back for another year. It wasn't Quinn's fault that everyone knew they weren't taking a QB because everyone knew he was on the hot seat and you don't take a rookie QB when you have to win to keep your job. That was what I hated about the decision to keep him. When you have an early pick like that and an aging QB that isn't going to want to hang around for another rebuild. You move on. Now it all worked out because who knows if we would of ended up with the Holmes/Cambell combo. Although I remember it being right in the middle of COVID and doing a Zoom meeting during the draft with all my friends and just miserable with our situation because you never know when your going to have the opportunity to take a QB that early. That is also why teams might think Holmes will take a QB at 6. The plan is to not have this early a pick for a long time. Goff has been great but I don't think anyone thinks he is a top 5 or even a top 10 QB. He played great last year and I am good if they stick with him for a while although its pretty clear that he benefited from a great line. Which is OK because we have a great line. Although, if you think you can get one of those guys that are a top 10 QB on a rookie contract, you have to make that pick. Your in a great situation with Goff with two years left on his contract at a good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: The logic to trade back isn't hey Miami, it's hey San Diego. And you also don't have to move on from Stafford in year one, you can sit the rookie behind him to dilute the QB market for 2020 and then trade him in the 2021 offseason. I think if you wanted to trade back in 2020 San Diego, not Miami, was your best trading partner. I think the logic was hey San Diego, you and about 2-3 other teams (Miami, Philly) are in the market for and desperate need of a QB. You've got both us and Miami ahead of you who could pick a QB. We know you wanted one of Tua or Herbert, but now you won't get either because we're about to draft one of the two. We are also hanging onto Stafford and will let the rookie sit behind him for a year, so that further dilutes the market of quality staters for you. So unless someone gives us a really great offer for Stafford, he's wearing a Lions uniform next year. However, we are equally interested in trading back to your draft spot, as much as we are in taking a QB at #3. If you trade back with us it gives you the chance to pick your QB ahead of Miami and stops us from taking your guy. If you don't trade back you're not getting Tua, Herbert or Stafford. You are going to be stuck drafting the third QB on your board or desperately looking elsewhere for your stater. Who knows how San Diego valued Jalen Hurts. But based on where Hurts was drafted, it couldn't have been a first round grade. Quinn screwed up because both San Diego and Miami knew he was never seriously going to take a QB. He gave them no incentive to trade with him. I think Holmes is being smart here because he's signalling to teams that all options are on the table, including drafting a QB. Who would San Diego have put out as their starter if Quinn had taken Herbert and the Dolphins Tua? Quinn needed to either call their bluff by drafting a QB or threaten to pull the trigger to get them to move up. Teams have multiple plans for draft night, Quinn could have signaled to San Diego he was equally interested in taking a QB or trading back and it was up to them what he did. If they wanted to let the Lions trade back then they would get their guy. If not, they'd be stuck scrambling elsewhere to find a starter. Good luck with Tyrod Taylor starting in week one. This isn't how this works. Teams are not as dumb as you think they are. The Chargers only incentive to trade with the Lions is to get ahead of Miami if they valued Tua more than Herbert. The Chargers weren't going to believe that the Lions will draft a QB and move on from Stafford but if you trade for our pick we'll completely change the direction of the franchise and our QB. I'm not even sure what Quinn did to make this so impossible of trading back. It couldn't have been any more affirming than what Campbell said of Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 14 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: Something I hadn’t considered RE Lamar (maybe others have and I’m just slow)… I think it’s just as if not more likely that the volume of NFL agents are colluding against him as it is owners are. Agents control the media narrative to a large degree and it is in their interests to make Lamar’s situation look like a cluster so no one else seeking a market setting contract tries to represent themselves Nah, I think it's more a case of teams not wanting to give him an injury prone running QB with diminishing stats the last few seasons a fully guaranteed max contract while also parting with two 1sts. I wouldn't doubt that NFL agents are capable of collusion but I think this is more a case of the risk outweighing the reward with Lamar's market value. Somebody will bite eventually because his upside is too tantalizing especially for treadmill franchises like Atlanta and Washington that desperately need an injection of excitement but it's understandable why nobody is chomping at the bit currently to take the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: This isn't how this works. Teams are not as dumb as you think they are. The Chargers only incentive to trade with the Lions is to get ahead of Miami if they valued Tua more than Herbert. The Chargers weren't going to believe that the Lions will draft a QB and move on from Stafford but if you trade for our pick we'll completely change the direction of the franchise and our QB. I'm not even sure what Quinn did to make this so impossible of trading back. It couldn't have been any more affirming than what Campbell said of Goff. It isn't about them being stupid as much as it is desperation. GMs do desperate things all the time, especially for a QB, to try to improve their franchise and save their own asses. Look at what Ryan Pace did trading up to get Justin Fields. He mortgaged the Bears and his own future just to get a QB. The Chargers that year had Easton Stick and Tyrod Taylor signed at the QB position that year once they let Philip Rivers go. If the Lions had drafted Herbert and the Dolphins Tua, where were the Chargers going to find their starter at? Not in free agency, because all the halfway decent guys were signed by then. I'm not continuing this topic after this but I firmly believe that Bob Quinn failed in his responsibility to gin up the necessary belief in other teams minds that he was taking a QB. Brad Holmes' comments from the other day signal an all options on the table approach, which is the right message to send IMO. Bob Quinn's message at the time seemed to cement that the Lions weren't drafting a QB, period. San Diego had no need to worry because they'd get either Tua or Herbert because they knew the Lions weren't taking a QB and were hanging onto Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 The issue isn’t really even about Lamar and more about the request for a fully guaranteed long term contract. It’s something the owners desperately want to avoid becoming the norm. The 3 year fully guaranteed deals to Rodgers and Cousins weren’t their favorite but the shorter term made it easier to take. Only a rogue owner is going offer a long term fully guaranteed deal. It Lamar is really looking for a Watson type deal, there are only a few teams that would even consider it for anybody. If he changes his guaranteed demands then he would have a completely different response from the rest of the league. In fact, Ravens would almost certainly offer him a huge deal to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: It isn't about them being stupid as much as it is desperation. GMs do desperate things all the time, especially for a QB, to try to improve their franchise and save their own asses. Look at what Ryan Pace did trading up to get Justin Fields. He mortgaged the Bears and his own future just to get a QB. The Chargers that year had Easton Stick and Tyrod Taylor signed at the QB position that year once they let Philip Rivers go. If the Lions had drafted Herbert and the Dolphins Tua, where were the Chargers going to find their starter at? Not in free agency, because all the halfway decent guys were signed by then. I'm not continuing this topic after this but I firmly believe that Bob Quinn failed in his responsibility to gin up the necessary belief in other teams minds that he was taking a QB. Brad Holmes' comments from the other day signal an all options on the table approach, which is the right message to send IMO. Bob Quinn's message at the time seemed to cement that the Lions weren't drafting a QB, period. San Diego had no need to worry because they'd get either Tua or Herbert because they knew the Lions weren't taking a QB and were hanging onto Stafford. Why didn't the Chargers trade with the Giants at 4? If the Lions drafted Herbert then the Chargers could trade for Stafford. Call the Lions bluff and make an offer for Stafford. No one is going to trade with Arizona this year because they're worried the Cardinals are going to draft a QB. Being able to trade back is dependent on who is drafting behind you and the value of the player in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I still don't even know what Quinn said that made the 3rd pick completely untradeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Apparently this is what Holmes knew that we didn’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Apparently this is what Holmes knew that we didn’t. That’s not his first surgery on that ankle either. Big injury risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I would have still gave him a 1 year $5 million contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Just now, MichiganCardinal said: That’s not his first surgery on that ankle either. Big injury risk. Yeah he wasn’t recovered from the first surgery until like week 10 last season, now another. Too bad for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Not a subscriber so I don't know the whole story or quote he said but atleast according to the headline here it sounds like we can shut the door on the Lamar talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 But how much did Lamar save on agent fees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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