Detroit Lions Offseason Thread 2023

[RandyMarsh]

Im guessing they are banking on signing him to another extension in a few years that will end up keeping his cap hit dowm then repeat that process for aslong as they want to keep him. 

[MichiganCardinal]

 

[MichiganCardinal]

That was really well put-together. Have to tip my hat to the media guys and gals.

I teared up a bit hearing John Cominsky's story. I give him a lot of kudos to him for being honest and open about the difficult dichotomy between being a warrior on the field four days a week and going home and being soft and caring to his wife and baby. Was also really cool to see the story about the scout behind the scenes and hear his story.

Not sure it was the intent but I really want that sweatshirt Holmes had on and a long-sleeve of the shirt Cominsky had on.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/this_lions_bills_trade_proposal_sends_intriguing_dt_to_detroit/s1_17150_38737995 Hrmmmmmmm. 🤔

[sagnam]

Jared Goff: I wish Aaron Rodgers was still in Green Bay so we could beat him twice a year

 

Goff already talking ****, lol

[MichiganCardinal]

Post-draft roster evaluation:

QB: Jared Goff / Nate Sudfeld / Hendon Hooker... A-

Goff isn't perfect, but he's plenty good enough. Hopefully Hooker stays on track in his recovery well enough that we don't have to carry three QBs into the regular season, or at least are able to drop Sudfeld and pickup someone else's training camp cut to backup Goff while Hooker recovers and develops.

RB: Jahmyr Gibbs / David Montgomery / Craig Reynolds / Jason Cabinda... A

I didn't expect a total overhaul at this position in January, but on the outside looking in it appears to have improved. The only real question is how they will mesh with the offensive scheme and offensive line.

WR: Jameson Williams / Amon-Ra St. Brown / Marvin Jones Jr. / Josh Reynolds / Kalif Raymond / Tom Kennedy / Antoine Green... B- / B+

The B- is without Jamo and the B+ is with him. This group scares me a little bit without him. There is really no vertical threat, and I'm not sure what to expect out of an aging Jones. We need Jamo back quickly and we need the others to stay healthy. I would not be opposed to finding someone for this group.

TE: Sam LaPorta / Brock Wright / James Mitchell / Shane Zylstra... B+

I expect LaPorta to come in and compete from day one. I expect Wright to pickup where he left off with being a block first, occasional weapon.

OL: Penei Sewell / Taylor Decker / Frank Ragnow / Jonah Jackson / Graham Glasgow / Halapoulivaati Vaitai / Matt Nelson Colby Sorsdol / Ross Pierschbacher... A

The only thing keeping this from an A+ is the small question mark at RG. Hopefully Glasgow and Vaitai can turn that into a training camp competition and make each other better. If we get 2021 Vaitai, this could be the best offensive line in football.

DT: Alim McNeill / Isaiah Buggs / Josh Paschal / Brodric Martin / Levi Onwuzurike... C+

The only true "weakness" I see on this team right now. This was a position group that definitely could have stood to improve in the offseason, but no real improvement has been made to this point, unless Martin is better than I think he is out of the gate as a rookie. These players performed well enough down the stretch, and if they can replicate that performance, I think they'll be alright, as in not actively costing us game. I worry about ground-and-pound teams with really good offensive lines (notably the Eagles and 49ers) having their way though.

EDGE: Aidan Hutchinson / Charles Harris / James Houston / Romeo Okwara / Julian Okwara / John Cominsky... B+

A crowded room, but one devoid of high-end talent outside of Hutch. We really need one of Harris or either Okwara to turn into an every down option that can take some attention away from Hutch. If Houston can even come close to replicating his work down the stretch it will make a world of difference to the entire defense.

LB: Alex Anzalone / Jack Campbell / Malcolm Rodriguez / Derrick Barnes... B

Improvement has been made, but that wasn't hard considering this was the league's worst linebacking corps not that long ago. We will still need Campbell to come out of the gate hot if we expect this to be a better unit.

DB: Cam Sutton / CJ Gardner-Johnson / Emmanuel Moseley / Kerby Joseph / Tracy Walker / Will Harris / Brian Branch / Jerry Jacobs... A-

What a difference a year can make. This is a whole new look secondary. My only concern is putting so many new pieces into one defense while getting Moseley and Walker healthy. If they can mesh and get on the same page culturally, this will likely be the best secondary in the division by a wide margin.

ST: Michael Badgley / Jack Fox / Jake McQuaide... B

I don't like the idea of Badgley being our kicker this year. He's good enough in the short range, but he can't be trusted from 50+. I don't want to be going for it on 4th and 9 from the opponent's 35 in a must-win game because our kicker can't be trusted to make a 52-yard field goal. I'd like to bring in one of Nick Folk, Robbie Gould, or Brett Maher, and let them compete with Badgley for the starting gig. Jack Fox is still great though.

Coaching: Dan Campbell / Ben Johnson / Aaron Glenn... A

I think this is one of the best coaching trios in football, and that if this team meets their potential we will need two new coordinators for 2024.

Overall Offense: A-

Overall Defense: B

Overall Team: A-

This team has sky high potential in an NFC that isn't very good. It seems to be in Dan Campbell's MO to expect there will be a game or two where we come out flat (that's not a knock, it's impossible to give 110% in 17+ NFL games), but I think - if we stay healthy - we should be favored in almost every game this season. I'm really excited.

[Sports_Freak]

11 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Post-draft roster evaluation:

QB: Jared Goff / Nate Sudfeld / Hendon Hooker... A-

Goff isn't perfect, but he's plenty good enough. Hopefully Hooker stays on track in his recovery well enough that we don't have to carry three QBs into the regular season, or at least are able to drop Sudfeld and pickup someone else's training camp cut to backup Goff while Hooker recovers and develops.

RB: Jahmyr Gibbs / David Montgomery / Craig Reynolds / Jason Cabinda... A

I didn't expect a total overhaul at this position in January, but on the outside looking in it appears to have improved. The only real question is how they will mesh with the offensive scheme and offensive line.

WR: Jameson Williams / Amon-Ra St. Brown / Marvin Jones Jr. / Josh Reynolds / Kalif Raymond / Tom Kennedy / Antoine Green... B- / B+

The B- is without Jamo and the B+ is with him. This group scares me a little bit without him. There is really no vertical threat, and I'm not sure what to expect out of an aging Jones. We need Jamo back quickly and we need the others to stay healthy. I would not be opposed to finding someone for this group.

TE: Sam LaPorta / Brock Wright / James Mitchell / Shane Zylstra... B+

I expect LaPorta to come in and compete from day one. I expect Wright to pickup where he left off with being a block first, occasional weapon.

OL: Penei Sewell / Taylor Decker / Frank Ragnow / Jonah Jackson / Graham Glasgow / Halapoulivaati Vaitai / Matt Nelson Colby Sorsdol / Ross Pierschbacher... A

The only thing keeping this from an A+ is the small question mark at RG. Hopefully Glasgow and Vaitai can turn that into a training camp competition and make each other better. If we get 2021 Vaitai, this could be the best offensive line in football.

DT: Alim McNeill / Isaiah Buggs / Josh Paschal / Brodric Martin / Levi Onwuzurike... C+

The only true "weakness" I see on this team right now. This was a position group that definitely could have stood to improve in the offseason, but no real improvement has been made to this point, unless Martin is better than I think he is out of the gate as a rookie. These players performed well enough down the stretch, and if they can replicate that performance, I think they'll be alright, as in not actively costing us game. I worry about ground-and-pound teams with really good offensive lines (notably the Eagles and 49ers) having their way though.

EDGE: Aidan Hutchinson / Charles Harris / James Houston / Romeo Okwara / Julian Okwara / John Cominsky... B+

A crowded room, but one devoid of high-end talent outside of Hutch. We really need one of Harris or either Okwara to turn into an every down option that can take some attention away from Hutch. If Houston can even come close to replicating his work down the stretch it will make a world of difference to the entire defense.

LB: Alex Anzalone / Jack Campbell / Malcolm Rodriguez / Derrick Barnes... B

Improvement has been made, but that wasn't hard considering this was the league's worst linebacking corps not that long ago. We will still need Campbell to come out of the gate hot if we expect this to be a better unit.

DB: Cam Sutton / CJ Gardner-Johnson / Emmanuel Moseley / Kerby Joseph / Tracy Walker / Will Harris / Brian Branch / Jerry Jacobs... A-

What a difference a year can make. This is a whole new look secondary. My only concern is putting so many new pieces into one defense while getting Moseley and Walker healthy. If they can mesh and get on the same page culturally, this will likely be the best secondary in the division by a wide margin.

ST: Michael Badgley / Jack Fox / Jake McQuaide... B

I don't like the idea of Badgley being our kicker this year. He's good enough in the short range, but he can't be trusted from 50+. I don't want to be going for it on 4th and 9 from the opponent's 35 in a must-win game because our kicker can't be trusted to make a 52-yard field goal. I'd like to bring in one of Nick Folk, Robbie Gould, or Brett Maher, and let them compete with Badgley for the starting gig. Jack Fox is still great though.

Coaching: Dan Campbell / Ben Johnson / Aaron Glenn... A

I think this is one of the best coaching trios in football, and that if this team meets their potential we will need two new coordinators for 2024.

Overall Offense: A-

Overall Defense: B

Overall Team: A-

This team has sky high potential in an NFC that isn't very good. It seems to be in Dan Campbell's MO to expect there will be a game or two where we come out flat (that's not a knock, it's impossible to give 110% in 17+ NFL games), but I think - if we stay healthy - we should be favored in almost every game this season. I'm really excited.

Great work. I agree with all of this and I also see a need at kicker.

[Shinzaki]

Benito Jones resigned at DT

[MichiganCardinal]

Remaining Wish List (from UDFAs, trades, or late free agency)

1. Wide Receiver with Starting Potential (DeAndre Hopkins, DeMarcus Robinson, Jarvis Landry)

2. Defensive Tackle with Starting Potential (Poona Ford, Matt Ionnidis, Akeim Hicks, I can't think of any trade targets)

3. Kicker Competition (Nick Folk, Brett Maher, Robbie Gould)

4. Linebacker depth (UDFAs)

5. Backup QB to replace Sudfeld and allow Hooker to be the developmental QB3 even when healthy (Teddy Bridgewater)

[sagnam]

The TE groups is a C at best.  RB is C.  WR is closer to C.  DT is a D.  LB is a C.

[buddha]

3 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Post-draft roster evaluation:

QB: Jared Goff / Nate Sudfeld / Hendon Hooker... A-

Goff isn't perfect, but he's plenty good enough. Hopefully Hooker stays on track in his recovery well enough that we don't have to carry three QBs into the regular season, or at least are able to drop Sudfeld and pickup someone else's training camp cut to backup Goff while Hooker recovers and develops.

RB: Jahmyr Gibbs / David Montgomery / Craig Reynolds / Jason Cabinda... A

I didn't expect a total overhaul at this position in January, but on the outside looking in it appears to have improved. The only real question is how they will mesh with the offensive scheme and offensive line.

WR: Jameson Williams / Amon-Ra St. Brown / Marvin Jones Jr. / Josh Reynolds / Kalif Raymond / Tom Kennedy / Antoine Green... B- / B+

The B- is without Jamo and the B+ is with him. This group scares me a little bit without him. There is really no vertical threat, and I'm not sure what to expect out of an aging Jones. We need Jamo back quickly and we need the others to stay healthy. I would not be opposed to finding someone for this group.

TE: Sam LaPorta / Brock Wright / James Mitchell / Shane Zylstra... B+

I expect LaPorta to come in and compete from day one. I expect Wright to pickup where he left off with being a block first, occasional weapon.

OL: Penei Sewell / Taylor Decker / Frank Ragnow / Jonah Jackson / Graham Glasgow / Halapoulivaati Vaitai / Matt Nelson Colby Sorsdol / Ross Pierschbacher... A

The only thing keeping this from an A+ is the small question mark at RG. Hopefully Glasgow and Vaitai can turn that into a training camp competition and make each other better. If we get 2021 Vaitai, this could be the best offensive line in football.

DT: Alim McNeill / Isaiah Buggs / Josh Paschal / Brodric Martin / Levi Onwuzurike... C+

The only true "weakness" I see on this team right now. This was a position group that definitely could have stood to improve in the offseason, but no real improvement has been made to this point, unless Martin is better than I think he is out of the gate as a rookie. These players performed well enough down the stretch, and if they can replicate that performance, I think they'll be alright, as in not actively costing us game. I worry about ground-and-pound teams with really good offensive lines (notably the Eagles and 49ers) having their way though.

EDGE: Aidan Hutchinson / Charles Harris / James Houston / Romeo Okwara / Julian Okwara / John Cominsky... B+

A crowded room, but one devoid of high-end talent outside of Hutch. We really need one of Harris or either Okwara to turn into an every down option that can take some attention away from Hutch. If Houston can even come close to replicating his work down the stretch it will make a world of difference to the entire defense.

LB: Alex Anzalone / Jack Campbell / Malcolm Rodriguez / Derrick Barnes... B

Improvement has been made, but that wasn't hard considering this was the league's worst linebacking corps not that long ago. We will still need Campbell to come out of the gate hot if we expect this to be a better unit.

DB: Cam Sutton / CJ Gardner-Johnson / Emmanuel Moseley / Kerby Joseph / Tracy Walker / Will Harris / Brian Branch / Jerry Jacobs... A-

What a difference a year can make. This is a whole new look secondary. My only concern is putting so many new pieces into one defense while getting Moseley and Walker healthy. If they can mesh and get on the same page culturally, this will likely be the best secondary in the division by a wide margin.

ST: Michael Badgley / Jack Fox / Jake McQuaide... B

I don't like the idea of Badgley being our kicker this year. He's good enough in the short range, but he can't be trusted from 50+. I don't want to be going for it on 4th and 9 from the opponent's 35 in a must-win game because our kicker can't be trusted to make a 52-yard field goal. I'd like to bring in one of Nick Folk, Robbie Gould, or Brett Maher, and let them compete with Badgley for the starting gig. Jack Fox is still great though.

Coaching: Dan Campbell / Ben Johnson / Aaron Glenn... A

I think this is one of the best coaching trios in football, and that if this team meets their potential we will need two new coordinators for 2024.

Overall Offense: A-

Overall Defense: B

Overall Team: A-

This team has sky high potential in an NFC that isn't very good. It seems to be in Dan Campbell's MO to expect there will be a game or two where we come out flat (that's not a knock, it's impossible to give 110% in 17+ NFL games), but I think - if we stay healthy - we should be favored in almost every game this season. I'm really excited.

qb: B

rb: B

wr: B-

TE: C

OL: A

DT: C-

Edge: B+

LB: C+

DB: A-

youre drinking a lot if kool aid my friend.

 

[MichiganCardinal]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

qb: B

rb: B

wr: B-

TE: C

OL: A

DT: C-

Edge: B+

LB: C+

DB: A-

youre drinking a lot if kool aid my friend.

 

A better exercise may have been comparing what I had them at in 2022 compared to now. Grades like this are inherently subjective, and I'm sure my B+ is not your B+.

[sagnam]

I’m curious what QB, RB, TE, WR, DT, and LB groups you think they are better than.  Perhaps there isn’t a curve, and many NFL teams have B’s or above across the board.

[RandyMarsh]

I'd say if you feel it's top 7 it's an A, 8-14 B, 15-22 C, 23-29 D and F for a bottom 4 unit. 

[MichiganCardinal]

1 minute ago, sagnam said:

I’m curious what QB, RB, TE, WR, DT, and LB groups you think they are better than.  Perhaps there isn’t a curve, and many NFL teams have B’s or above across the board.

Yeah that's what I mean. I wasn't really comparing them to other teams when making the grades but was thinking in a vacuum. It's quite possible I'm just the TA you want in your class.

On a team-wide basis, I think the only team squarely better than them today in the NFC is the Eagles. I think they are in the next group, along with the 49ers and Cowboys, that has a legitimate chance when healthy to make a deep playoff run, but that the road runs through Philly. The Lions probably have a slightly easier schedule than those three though.

If you add in the AFC, I don't think they're on the same level as any of the powerhouses, being the Chiefs, Bills, and Bengals. I might put them in the same category as teams like the Dolphins, Ravens, and Steelers.

To comp each position group would take me a lot of time... but what else am I going to do until August? Maybe I'll do it.

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'd say if you feel it's top 7 it's an A, 8-14 B, 15-22 C, 23-29 D and F for a bottom 4 unit. 

On this scale I am probably something like...

QB: B

RB: B+

WR: B- or C+

TE: B-

OL: A

DT: D

DE/EDGE: B

LB: C

DB: B

ST: C

Coaching: A

 

I think I'm a half to full letter grade up on almost every position when it's compared to just the rest of the NFC though.

 

 

[sagnam]

I can’t argue with that one

[Jason_R]

Know who else has drunk the kool aid? Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell. They are smashing it by the pitcher.

I think they came into the draft, after shoring up the secondary in free agency, thinking that their only real weakness was stopping the run. That (and their apparent decision that Carter was undraftable) is the only thing that accounts for them taking Campbell so much earlier than everyone else had him. It seems like he was the guy they felt like they could not miss out on. Now they hope to have game changing players at every level of the defense. 

There was some griping in the thread about how they were not drafting for "today's NFL" with a RB and LB early, but clearly their goal is to recreate the greatest show on turf. Today's NFL is about scoring, and they have the personnel to lead the league in scoring. Gibbs and Jaymo are two of the fastest players in the NFL. ASB is a pass receiving machine. Montgomery and Laporta are also both above average in speed and are reputed for breaking tackles. You have players who can score from anywhere on the field, players who can extend drives, and a coaching staff that can stress any defense.

I still scratch my head about the Hooker pick, but with their UDFA signing of Adrian Martinez, it seems they are serious about having a mobile QB... even if just for the practice squad. I also scratch my head about trading up for Martin. It fits into the narrative that Holmes is sometimes too locked into the guys he loves, but then again I don't know who else was on the board at that time at 6'5" and 335 lbs. We know Holmes likes physical traits and character, and Martin has them.

 

[buddha]

11 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Yeah that's what I mean. I wasn't really comparing them to other teams when making the grades but was thinking in a vacuum. It's quite possible I'm just the TA you want in your class.

On a team-wide basis, I think the only team squarely better than them today in the NFC is the Eagles. I think they are in the next group, along with the 49ers and Cowboys, that has a legitimate chance when healthy to make a deep playoff run, but that the road runs through Philly. The Lions probably have a slightly easier schedule than those three though.

If you add in the AFC, I don't think they're on the same level as any of the powerhouses, being the Chiefs, Bills, and Bengals. I might put them in the same category as teams like the Dolphins, Ravens, and Steelers.

To comp each position group would take me a lot of time... but what else am I going to do until August? Maybe I'll do it.

the niners and eagles are above the lions in the nfc.

the lions are in the next group of teams: cowboys, giants, seahawks, panthers maybe.  i'd put them below the seahawks and cowboys but above the giants and panthers at this point.

its too early to tell who has an easy schedule.  

and - as usual with the nfl - a lot of this comes down to health.  if the lions dont sign bridgewater and then lose goff for any amount of time, they're probably sunk.

but they still have some cap space left and there are june 1st cuts to come.  maybe they use that to shore up their weaknesses at defensive tackle, backup qb, and wide receiver?

[Tenacious D]

I don’t see us signing Bridgewater, nor him interested in coming here now. In the event of a Goff injury, Sudfeld will be the bridge until Hooker is healthy/ready.

We’re a DT away from having a good defense that had already shown improvements in the 2nd half of last season and improved through free agency and the draft.  I still think Holmes will make a few more moves—we’re probably in a place where we can start to trade draft capital, vs trying to accumulate it.

As for SF, they have a QB issue—two young, unproven guys coming off serious injuries.  Purdy was a nice story, but I wouldn’t want to have to count on him as my starter on a Super Bowl caliber team.

 

[Shinzaki]

I have no insights into the thought processes of Teddy Bridgewater or anyone else... But I'd be very surprised if we didn't add a veteran back up.

They still have  $$$ to spend and June 1st is coming...lets see how things play out

[Motown Bombers]

I would actually like signing Bridgewater now. Bridgewater had a devastating knee injury where he almost had his leg amputated but still came back. He could be as good of a mentor to Hooker as Goff.  

[Motown Bombers]

Perhaps June 1st cuts by the Vikings? Smith could be of use to the Lions. 

 

[buddha]

44 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t see us signing Bridgewater, nor him interested in coming here now. In the event of a Goff injury, Sudfeld will be the bridge until Hooker is healthy/ready.

We’re a DT away from having a good defense that had already shown improvements in the 2nd half of last season and improved through free agency and the draft.  I still think Holmes will make a few more moves—we’re probably in a place where we can start to trade draft capital, vs trying to accumulate it.

As for SF, they have a QB issue—two young, unproven guys coming off serious injuries.  Purdy was a nice story, but I wouldn’t want to have to count on him as my starter on a Super Bowl caliber team.

 

the niners have the best offensive coach in the league.  they'll be fine no matter who their qb is (unless they are down to zero qbs like they were in the nfc championship game).

sudfeld will be cut if they sign bridgewater.  he may get cut anyway if hooker shows he is capable of playing.

[Motown Bombers]

Having Hooker ready to be the backup by week one is an aggressive timeline. I would rather go with Sudfeld as the backup and even consider starting Hooker on the IR like they did with Williams. Hooker is about 2024 and beyond.