2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I remember the 2006 Tigers.

I remember the 2012 Tigers.

I have great and fond memories of these teams.

I even remember the 1975 Red Sox....I didn't watch a single game, since I was only 5 years old, but I remember them because everybody else remembers them.

I can go on and on with very memorable teams that didn't win a ring.

It would be a miserable universe where winning the ring is the only point of playing or following a sport.

There are so many teams in the post-season tournament now that I have a hard time remembering which team won the whole thing in which year.  Pretty soon there will be 14 teams in the tournament.  It's easier to remember the great players and great teams and I want more of those to be Tigers.   

[Tigeraholic1]

If they could just become a competitive team year in and year out. If we have a roster thats a consistent 80+ wins avg. I would be happy.

[casimir]

11 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

For some people, the only real point to watching a team is to see it win the championship. 

Everything else is failure. 

Let's take two kind of realistic examples of teams that mostly win (Model #1), and teams that mostly lose (Model #2):

- Model #1: team that wins 90-100 games for 7 out of 10 years, does so-so for two years, and has one bad season out of 10, and wins zero championships in 10 years is actually worse than

- Model #2: a team that loses 90-110 games every year for 7 years out of 10 years, then does so-so for two years, then in the 10th year, makes the playoffs and wins the championship.

Furthermore, the guy that prefers Model #2 is convinced that Model #2 is "more successful" than Model #1 BECAUSE the 100+ loss seasons supposedly set up the championship season by providing relatively cheap high-1st-round-tanking pick talent.....and thus Model #2 teams avoid signing Free Agents who might require larger multi-year contracts in their late 20's/early 30's.....Model #2 owners spend less money, and that's the second most important metric, behind championship rings.

The poor unfortunate fans of Model #1 teams have marginally fewer championship seasons, and suffer the indignity of having teams with league-average (or higher!) payrolls.

I know which one I prefer. 

I want to see another title.  I want to see a playoff contender year in and year out.  Ain't no reason to not hope for both. 

Usually the title winner makes it to the playoffs.  Once the playoffs start, usually one of the teams in the playoffs wins the title.  It isn't always the best team entering the playoffs.  So, hey, get into the playoffs, hopefully healthy and at 100% strength, and then go from there.  And if a team is in the playoffs more often than not, the chances of getting a title in there are probably better than those teams that don't qualify for the playoffs.

[Useful Idiot]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Yeah, 2008. Those were the days, huh?

Well, it's not "just" the $32 million. It's having $32 million wrapped up in an under performing  asset hanging around your neck like a dead weight that serves as disincentive for an owner  to go out and sign top tier talent. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Useful Idiot

[Useful Idiot]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Trying to “buck-buck-buckawwww-chicken” Mike Ilitch into offering $30M/year contracts. I like your style.

You mean "Chris"?

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I would be happier with the 96-05 Braves than the 2010s Royals and it's not even close.  Having a good team to follow every summer is what it's all about.  Winning the post-season tournament is fun but that's only a few weeks versus ten fun summers.  

Exactly.

[chasfh]

26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I remember the really good teams that lasted a long time.  I barely even remember that Royals team other than they had a bunch of good relief pitchers and got lucky in the tournament.  I remember the Braves vividly.  Maddox, Glavine and Smoltz were one of the most dominant pitching trios ever.  

Two of my favorite teams were the 1987 and 2013 teams, and they didn't even go to the Series.

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

You mean "Chris"?

Of course.

[Useful Idiot]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Of course.

Well, if it works, then I intend to take full credit. 

[sabretooth]

I prefer where I am, but the correct group does serve better whiskey, so there is that.

[Useful Idiot]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Two of my favorite teams were the 1987 and 2013 teams, and they didn't even go to the Series.

I found the way the Tigers played during the second half of the 2011 regular season to be most enjoyable. 

[sabretooth]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Two of my favorite teams were the 1987 and 2013 teams, and they didn't even go to the Series.

1987 was just great.  The final clincher against the Jays.  Frank Tanana.  Scott Lusader.  Bill Madlock.  Matt Nokes.  Darrell Evans being picked off 3rd.

Without looking, can anybody tell me who led the Tigers in saves in 1987 and how many saves he had?  Hint: it wasn't Willie Hernandez or Mike Henneman, and it was less than 10 saves.

[sabretooth]

My goodness, Chet Lemon finished his career with nearly 2,000 hits, over 200 HR, and an OPS+ of 121 over nearly 7,900 PAs, and 55 WAR.  I had no idea he had such a great career, and he never really fizzled out, despite playing CF his whole career.

What a stud.

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Two of my favorite teams were the 1987 and 2013 teams, and they didn't even go to the Series.

Also, 1976

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, sabretooth said:

My goodness, Chet Lemon finished his career with nearly 2,000 hits, over 200 HR, and an OPS+ of 121 over nearly 7,900 PAs, and 55 WAR.  I had no idea he had such a great career, and he never really fizzled out, despite playing CF his whole career.

What a stud.

yeah, he was overshadowed by some of his great teammates, but he was a big part of the Tigers teams of the 80s.  

[sabretooth]

35 minutes ago, casimir said:

I want to see another title.  I want to see a playoff contender year in and year out.  Ain't no reason to not hope for both. 

Usually the title winner makes it to the playoffs.  Once the playoffs start, usually one of the teams in the playoffs wins the title.  It isn't always the best team entering the playoffs.  So, hey, get into the playoffs, hopefully healthy and at 100% strength, and then go from there.  And if a team is in the playoffs more often than not, the chances of getting a title in there are probably better than those teams that don't qualify for the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong, I want a ring, but I would not tolerate 110 loss seasons most of the time to win one ring every 10-15 years.

I want a mostly good team that can make the playoffs and thus win a ring when there, vs. a team that mostly sucks, is designed to suck dramatically for long stretches, and makes the playoffs less frequently, and also might win a ring when there.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I want to see another title.  I want to see a playoff contender year in and year out.  Ain't no reason to not hope for both.

Of course we hope for both, but that just short-circuits the this-or-that question, so if you'd like to, tell us which of the two you'd prefer.

[chasfh]

51 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

1987 was just great.  The final clincher against the Jays.  Frank Tanana.  Scott Lusader.  Bill Madlock.  Matt Nokes.  Darrell Evans being picked off 3rd.

Without looking, can anybody tell me who led the Tigers in saves in 1987 and how many saves he had?  Hint: it wasn't Willie Hernandez or Mike Henneman, and it was less than 10 saves.

I mean, 1984 was great in its own right, of course, but 1987 was special to me because we had to make up a three- or four-game in the last week, and we did. That's the first team I rooted for that had ever done anything like that, and it was magic.

[Dan Gilmore]

After the letdown against the Twins in the 87 playoffs, I was excited about the Tigers in 88. They were good, even very good…just the BosSox were a little better 😡

[RedTeamGo!]

You all probably do not remember me, but I used to post on the old motownsports pretty regularly about 10-15 years ago. I definitely recognize a lot of the names in this thread. Grew up in Toledo going to Mud Hens games and have been to a bunch of Tigers games, so that is why a Reds fan used to post on here. I randomly had the thought to check motown and see what you folks were saying about the Barnhart trade and it is some gambling site? Wtf?

Anyways, here are my thoughts on Barnhart none of you asked for:

He is excellent at throwing out baserunners. Just a cannon for an arm. He is solid at blocking pitches in the dirt. He is not good at all at framing pitches. In my opinion he is pretty overrated defensively. Certainly not bad behind the plate, but, and maybe this is just random it seemed like the pitchers responded much better to Stephenson than Barnhart. Castillo particularly. Also, Sonny Gray refuses to pitch to him for whatever reason. That is why Curt Casali started nearly every game behind the dish while he was on the team for him. 

Now, with the bat: he is decent for a C. He will go on stretches, usually earlier in the season, where he tears the cover off the ball. He has this really long swing that when he connects its leaving the park, any park. Most of the time its a strikeout, though. When his bat is not on fire, he is an auto-out. 

Some Reds fans are upset they did not pick up his option. He is a good team leader, great clubhouse presence, and all around good ol boy from Indiana, somewhat local player according to those fans. For some reason that matters to them.

Also, his wife is hot. 

Also, I follow the draft pretty closely every year so I know Quintana is a nothing, haha.

Good to see all these familiar names! I might pop around here and there to see what is up with the Tigers as the Reds are an absolute dumpster fire and the Tigers look like they are going to be fun to watch the next several years! 

Edited November 11, 2021 by RedTeamGo!

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, RedTeamGo! said:

You all probably do not remember me, but I used to post on the old motownsports pretty regularly about 10-15 years ago. I definitely recognize a lot of the names in this thread. Grew up in Toledo going to Mud Hens games and have been to a bunch of Tigers games, so that is why a Reds fan used to post on here. I randomly had the thought to check motown and see what you folks were saying about the Barnhart trade and it is some gambling site? Wtf?

Anyways, here are my thoughts on Barnhart none of you asked for:

He is excellent at throwing out baserunners. Just a cannon for an arm. He is solid at blocking pitches in the dirt. He is not good at all at framing pitches. In my opinion he is pretty overrated defensively. Certainly not bad behind the plate, but, and maybe this is just random it seemed like the pitchers responded much better to Stephenson than Barnhart. Castillo particularly. Also, Sonny Gray refuses to pitch to him for whatever reason. That is why Curt Casali started nearly every game behind the dish while he was on the team for him. 

Now, with the bat: he is decent for a C. He will go on stretches, usually earlier in the season, where he tears the cover off the ball. He has this really long swing that when he connects its leaving the park, any park. Most of the time its a strikeout, though. When his bat is not on fire, he is an auto-out. 

Some Reds fans are upset they did not pick up his option. He is a good team leader, great clubhouse presence, and all around good ol boy from Indiana, somewhat local player according to those fans. For some reason that matters to them.

Also, his wife is hot. 

Also, I follow the draft pretty closely every year so I know Quintana is a nothing, haha.

Good to see all these familiar names! I might pop around here and there to see what is up with the Tigers as the Reds are an absolute dumpster fire and the Tigers look like they are going to be fun to watch the next several years! 

That's what matters.

Seriously though, thanks for your opinion.  Opinions from fans who watched a player regularly is one good way to get input on a new player.

[bobrob2004]

1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

I even remember the 1975 Red Sox....I didn't watch a single game, since I was only 5 years old, but I remember them because everybody else remembers them.

I don't remember the 1975 Red Sox because I wasn't born yet.

[Tiger337]

Even though I've always hated the Red Sox, that team was difficult to hate.  The gold dust twins Lynn and Rice, Luis Tiant, Bill Lee, etc. was a fun team.  I always hated Rick Burleson though.  He was supposed to be the glue that kept that team together and he really wasn't that great and he always looked like he was pissed.    

[Archie]

The hot wife is most important info. I'll watch for her

[djhutch]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

There are so many teams in the post-season tournament now that I have a hard time remembering which team won the whole thing in which year.  Pretty soon there will be 14 teams in the tournament.  It's easier to remember the great players and great teams and I want more of those to be Tigers.   

This ... 1000%.