casimir Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 11 hours ago, KL2 said: I think those numbers are woefully under. Too many people think $20 million is the big threshold. 12 players last year made more than $30 million. 33 different players, including guys like Charlie Morton, made at least $20 million. Heck guys are getting $18 milliion in arbitration. Story made $18.5 million last year. He is a good age, plays Short and is a free agent. I'd love to get him for a 2 million raise, but I'd be shocked if it happens. Then you got some big makets saying hey we're gonna spend. None of that seems to indicate a bunch of $18 AAV deals. Correra will get something like 300 million with opt outs on both sides (like a mutual option that become a player option after four years if he pays in an average of like 80 games). Seagar will approach 300 million. Story and Seimien will both be around the 225 range. I don't know what's going to happen this off season, but I would imagine Story settling for $20M AAV is among the leastest likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 14 hours ago, 1776 said: I think Andrew Miller is washed up. Wouldn’t even consider him. Rodon did not record an out beyond the sixth inning from July 15 to the end of the season. In fact, I believe there are questions regarding his physical condition. Wouldn’t consider him either. Scherzer is the best SP out there. Al should have a conversation to find out what it would take for a deal. Max is the real thing. I know he’s a pipe dream of sorts but at least inquire. He and the Big 3 would be a very formidable rotation (possibly dominant) and maybe Wentz rounds it out. I’d be very cautious on signing Correa. He’ll want the keys to the bank for a lengthy deal. Al says they’re taking a “comprehensive” approach here. BS or not, I do agree with the language. But Andrew Miller is a Devil We Know™, so … let’s sign him! And Justin Verlander is a Devil We Know™, so … let’s sign him! And Carlos Rodon is 4-2 lifetime against the Tigers. He’s a Tiger Killer™ so … let’s sign him! And everyone knows Carlos Correa is the #1 free agent on the market and everyone else wants him, who cares how many years it costs, so … let’s sign him! Maybe we don’t want what Tony Paul’s having, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: The salaries keep going up and up and baseball keeps making money and the teams that spend the most tend to have more success.. Do they though? The Dodgers yes, the Yankees, Mets and Padres not so much recently. Braves, White Sox, Brewers, Tampa were all under ~$153M with the league average of 128M. Definitely true that If you are near the bottom you are very likely bad, but being at the very top doesn't seem to buy you much of anything. The luxury tax does function as a defacto salary cap and teams that get too much money tied up in too few players for too long do tend to suffer for it. There is a sweet spot and it probably lines up pretty well with Avila's 'drunken sailor' concept. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2021/ Edited November 14, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, chasfh said: Devil We Know™ This has to be on your grave stone. I mean, don't keel over anytime soon, but this phrase is your favorite in these parts. chasfh Then -- Later Loving husband, son, brother, yada, yada, yada. "The devil we knew." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: Do they though? The Dodgers yes, the Yankees, Mets and Padres not so much recently. Braves, White Sox, Brewers, Tampa were all under ~$153M with the league average of 128M. Definitely true that If you are near the bottom you are very likely bad, but being at the very top doesn't seem to buy you much of anything. The luxury tax does function as a defacto salary cap and teams that get too much money tied up in too few players for too long do tend to suffer for it. There is a sweet spot and it probably lines up pretty well with Avila's 'drunken sailor' concept. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2021/ Don't forget the pandemic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) The snow is falling, the chill is in the air and my thoughts turn to Spring Training, which will be Summer Training this year, as the players report to the two-week camp just after the first day of Summer and start the season on July 4th - How American. Riley Greene & Spencer Torkleson tear it up in Triple A before the MLB season starts. They play the whole season with the Tigers. Greene shines and wins Rookie Of The Year. Torkleson struggles early but shows massive power and finishes strong. Javy Baez leads the league in Runs Saved at shortstop, but has an average season at the plate. The Tigers finish with a record of 42-38, 2nd in the Central, and 7th in the playoff seeding, where they will play #2 Chicago in a 3 game series, all 3 games being in Chicago (the #7 and #8 seeds have to play all games on the road). Justin Verlander, who had a very inconsistent season, wins Game 3, like he used to do against the A's. Then the Tigers move on to play #1 New York in a 5-game series and prove they still have the Yankees' number in the playoffs. In the ALCS the Tigers drop the series vs. #4 Tampa Bay in 5 games. In the World Series Tampa defeats the NL's #3-seeded New York Mets in 6 games. It is the lowest World Series TV ratings in the sport's recent history Less than 30 days after the parade, the Rays announce they're moving to Nashville. Everyone trashes baseball. By 2025, with baseball still being reviled over the 2022 strike, and no cities willing to pay for any stadiums, the Marlins and A's fold and President DeSantis tries to penalize MLB over Miami's departure. The Diamondbacks start playing some home games in Las Vegas. In 2026 the Texas Rangers open their brand new ballpark, Tax-Dodge Field @ Arlington West Edited November 14, 2021 by Motor City Sonics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: The snow is falling, the chill is in the air and my thoughts turn to Spring Training,... pretty much nails it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theroundsquare Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Except its "emperor," not "president" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Did anyone see Scott Boras' comments at the GM meetings? Apparently he went off on deadline deals ruining the game for the fans as tanking teams allow other teams to completely rebuild after mid-season - I guess the implication being that teams trying to build the right way and their fans end up screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 I think Baseball will start on time FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Did anyone see Scott Boras' comments at the GM meetings? Apparently he went off on deadline deals ruining the game for the fans as tanking teams allow other teams to completely rebuild after mid-season - I guess the implication being that teams trying to build the right way and their fans end up screwed. Yes I saw that and while I agree tanking needs to be addressed I think mid season trades build fan's interest for both sides..getting a veteran to win or a prospect to build upon. As for tanking is it possible to rank draft order by increased wins or increased win percentage ? Meaning the team that improves by the most victories from the year prior picks first. That is easiest done for teams that have low win totals so it still should help the lower teams but also eliminates winning 55 games for consecutive years to keep tanking/drafting low. I haven't thought it through but it might work. Use increased win percentage to break ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: The snow is falling, the chill is in the air and my thoughts turn to Spring Training, which will be Summer Training this year, as the players report to the two-week camp just after the first day of Summer and start the season on July 4th - How American. Riley Greene & Spencer Torkleson tear it up in Triple A before the MLB season starts. They play the whole season with the Tigers. Greene shines and wins Rookie Of The Year. Torkleson struggles early but shows massive power and finishes strong. Javy Baez leads the league in Runs Saved at shortstop, but has an average season at the plate. The Tigers finish with a record of 42-38, 2nd in the Central, and 7th in the playoff seeding, where they will play #2 Chicago in a 3 game series, all 3 games being in Chicago (the #7 and #8 seeds have to play all games on the road). Justin Verlander, who had a very inconsistent season, wins Game 3, like he used to do against the A's. Then the Tigers move on to play #1 New York in a 5-game series and prove they still have the Yankees' number in the playoffs. In the ALCS the Tigers drop the series vs. #4 Tampa Bay in 5 games. In the World Series Tampa defeats the NL's #3-seeded New York Mets in 6 games. It is the lowest World Series TV ratings in the sport's recent history Less than 30 days after the parade, the Rays announce they're moving to Nashville. Everyone trashes baseball. By 2025, with baseball still being reviled over the 2022 strike, and no cities willing to pay for any stadiums, the Marlins and A's fold and President DeSantis tries to penalize MLB over Miami's departure. The Diamondbacks start playing some home games in Las Vegas. In 2026 the Texas Rangers open their brand new ballpark, Tax-Dodge Field @ Arlington West Great projection!! But please, not Javy Baez. Anything but that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Yes I saw that and while I agree tanking needs to be addressed I think mid season trades build fan's interest for both sides..getting a veteran to win or a prospect to build upon. As for tanking is it possible to rank draft order by increased wins or increased win percentage ? Meaning the team that improves by the most victories from the year prior picks first. That is easiest done for teams that have low win totals so it still should help the lower teams but also eliminates winning 55 games for consecutive years to keep tanking/drafting low. I haven't thought it through but it might work. Use increased win percentage to break ties. that's in interesting concept. You are bad - you spend a little money to get better and that leverages you into better draft picks? On first hearing I like that -- but you'd have to game out all the possible ways to abuse it. Maybe you don't want to get too much better in one year because if you spread your improvement over a couple years you might get 2 #3s as opposed to 1 #1? That wouldn't be so bad but what if it ends up encouraging a team to *really* tank to have a low winning % in year zero to bootstrap themselves into top pick the next year? Do you want to penalize a team with solid management that suffers a bunch of injuries one year? I like the base concept but as always the devil would be in the details. Edited November 14, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 44 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said: Great projection!! But please, not Javy Baez. Anything but that. Much better, MUCH much better than anything they have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Much better, MUCH much better than anything they have now. I've been thinking about that, and rather than dumping a bunch of money into a top drawer all star, perhaps a hybrid solution is in order? We could, for instance try moving Victor Reyes over to shortstop to begin games, and then pick up an inexpensive glove man to be substituted in later in games to protect leads in high leverage games. We could put the money saved in a trust, assuring that we will have resources available later when our current crop of rising stars approach free agency. Something that might help to assure that Tork and Greene remain "Tigers for Life". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 hours ago, casimir said: This has to be on your grave stone. I mean, don't keel over anytime soon, but this phrase is your favorite in these parts. chasfh Then -- Later Loving husband, son, brother, yada, yada, yada. "The devil we knew." Glad you like it. I’ll ramp up its use for your benefit. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said: I've been thinking about that, and rather than dumping a bunch of money into a top drawer all star, perhaps a hybrid solution is in order? We could, for instance try moving Victor Reyes over to shortstop to begin games, and then pick up an inexpensive glove man to be substituted in later in games to protect leads in high leverage games. We could put the money saved in a trust, assuring that we will have resources available later when our current crop of rising stars approach free agency. Something that might help to assure that Tork and Greene remain "Tigers for Life". I see somebody here isn’t sick of the losing yet. 😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: I see somebody here isn’t sick of the losing yet. 😭 Au contraire, I was first and among the loudest to brand our "rebuild" as a salary dump. I don't think there is anyone who has been more critical of this organization's determination to masquerade thrift as forward thinking. I've just reached the point where I've learned to laugh at it. Victor Reyes is the perfect antithesis to "drunken sailor" mentality. You just need to learn to accept that your priorities as a fan, and the priorities of those running this organization have marginal overlap. Once you get beyond that hurdle, the sting tends to go away. ☯️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Plus, after years of Christin Stewart, Ronny Rodriguez, and Brandon Dixon, everybody looks like Ricky Henderson. 😷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 To further the Correa rumors Twitter sleuths noticed that he had the Tigers emoji in his bio today before deleting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Useful Idiot said: Great projection!! But please, not Javy Baez. Anything but that. Niko Goodrum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 On 11/12/2021 at 4:55 PM, RandyMarsh said: Tony Paul of the Detroit News put out his list for top FAs and his predictions. He has the Tigers signing Correa, Verlander, Carlos Rodon and Andrew Miller. I'm gonna be disappointed when we inevitably only sign a couple third tier pitchers and trade assets for somebody's backup ss. Whoa....even I would be happy with that 🙂 Taint happening, I know If they got one of the good SS, two good pitchers, and one other serviceable FA (reliever or hitter), I'd be very happy. I would guess that's not happening, either. I would guess that the "sustainable winning" (re: more money for Chris I and more losing for us) crowd around here has it right: we will whiff on the big FAs, and settle for: (a) one so-so SP like Cobb, (b) a so-so SS via trade for DeJong, Taylor, or Wendle, and (c) some waiver-wire level RP or two, and hope to luck into a winning season while we wait for the youngsters to blossom in future years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 This is for Chasfh (just came out Friday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Do they though? The Dodgers yes, the Yankees, Mets and Padres not so much recently. Braves, White Sox, Brewers, Tampa were all under ~$153M with the league average of 128M. Definitely true that If you are near the bottom you are very likely bad, but being at the very top doesn't seem to buy you much of anything. The luxury tax does function as a defacto salary cap and teams that get too much money tied up in too few players for too long do tend to suffer for it. There is a sweet spot and it probably lines up pretty well with Avila's 'drunken sailor' concept. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2021/ The Yankees haven't had a losing record since 1992 and they make the playoffs most years, including the last five years. I would bet that the correlation between payroll and wins over several years is quite high. Edited November 15, 2021 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: pretty much nails it.... You mean to tell me that Lions football doesn't have you hanging off the edge of your seat? 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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