2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[RandyMarsh]

I feel like there's got to be better options than Boyd or atleast guys with higher upsides. Boyd at his best is probably a 4 ERA over the course of the season, last year was his best season ERA wise at 3.89 but he also got hurt half way through, he notoriously struggles in the 2nd half so if he didn't get injured that ERA was surely going to rise well about 4.

Now getting 30 some starts of a 4 ERA has alot of value but Boyd is probably only going to give you 15 or 20 at the most next year and that 4 ERA is best case scenario, he's just as likely to give you one over 5 than he is that 4. 

[gehringer_2]

I can go either way on Boyd. He's not been any kind of world beater, but he's managed to be ERA+ positive in each of the last three real seasons pitching in front of a generally bad defensive team and until this surgery has been pretty healthy - plus he has a rep for working very hard at his conditioning, diet etc., so it's not like there is nothing to like there.

'

[Jim Cowan]

39 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The O.G. (RIP)

I thought about him yesterday, his nickname was Edweirdo.

[Edman85]

9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Huh?

 

[Archie]

I was listening to a sports talk radio show yesterday and they believe that Correa is already signed with Detroit and they are holding off on the announcement. I have a hard time beleiving that but maybe its true? 

[RandyMarsh]

Just a heads up for anybody that has or listens to MLB network radio, Dan Dickerson will be on the their morning show at 9:35 this morning.  

[chasfh]

Quick, you have half an hour to get to a Sirius radio or app.

 

[chasfh]

21 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

I would like them to get a real first baseman instead of moving Schoop there and using Willi Castro/Isaac Paredes at 2B.  I know that they are keeping the spot open for Torkelson, but they shouldn't be relying on him to contribute this year.  I hate giving a prospect a starting job when he has proven nothing at the ML level.  

I think with the acquisition of impact players, we’ll see Tork and probably Riley in Detroit sooner than later. I don’t think free agents would sign on to losing, or more exactly, not actively trying to contend, for even one year. I’m guessing getting the top kids up quickly must have been part of the conversation before signing the deal. 

[Tenacious D]

my early predictions are that Greene makes the team out of Spring Training (he is already the best OF in the system) and Tork starts out in Toledo, with his play dictating how quickly he moves up--I'll go with Memorial Day weekend as my best guess.

[Archie]

10 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

my early predictions are that Greene makes the team out of Spring Training (he is already the best OF in the system) and Tork starts out in Toledo, with his play dictating how quickly he moves up--I'll go with Memorial Day weekend as my best guess.

I would rather see Tork sooner than later because I don't want to see Schoop at 1B.  I know he was doing what was asked of him but that's not his position and it showed.

[Tenacious D]

1 minute ago, Archie said:

I would rather see Tork sooner than later because I don't want to see Schoop at 1B.  I know he was doing what was asked of him but that's not his position and it showed.

If the tradeoff is rushing Tork before they think he's ready, I can live with Schoop at 1B.  I don't think we're a playoff team next year, so it doesn't matter to me.  And if playing Schoop at 1B allows us to see what Paredes can do with some extended playing time, there is a benefit to that, as well.  As a reminder, Isaac is only 22 years old, so we should not be giving up on him prematurely.  

[RandyMarsh]

Barring any major setbacks whether it be injuries or performance based(like they look totally overmatched in Spring Training) I think Greene and Tork will both be up on Opening Day.  I'm sure the rules about call up time and getting that extra year of control will change in the new CBA but even if they don't I think it would still be in the Tigers best interest to have them on the Opening Day roster.

The reason being is that the Tigers are in a position where they are going to need every win they can get if they want to make the playoffs and delaying Greene and Tork's call up by a month may give them an extra year of control but could cost them a win or 2 and those wins may end up costing them a playoff spot. 

[Archie]

4 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

If the tradeoff is rushing Tork before they think he's ready, I can live with Schoop at 1B.  I don't think we're a playoff team next year, so it doesn't matter to me.  And if playing Schoop at 1B allows us to see what Paredes can do with some extended playing time, there is a benefit to that, as well.  As a reminder, Isaac is only 22 years old, so we should not be giving up on him prematurely.  

I think a lot still depends on what FA they are able sign this offseason. Lets say the get Correa and another quality pitcher.  Expectaion are going to be higher and Schoop struggling at 1B isnt going to go over well.

[bobrob2004]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think with the acquisition of impact players, we’ll see Tork and probably Riley in Detroit sooner than later. I don’t think free agents would sign on to losing, or more exactly, not actively trying to contend, for even one year. I’m guessing getting the top kids up quickly must have been part of the conversation before signing the deal. 

I'm not advocating a Freddie Freeman type signing, but a utility player or a minor league signing that has the ability to play 1B (as well as other positions for flexibility).  They tried Renato Nunez last year and it didn't work out.  Why not someone like Brad Miller for about 3-4 million?  He can play 1B until Tork is ready to take over mid-season and Miller becomes a utility player.  If he is too expensive, try to get Marwin Gonzalez or Asdrubal Cabrera on a minor league deal and see how they do in ST.  

I just think it's a terrible idea to have Schoop keep moving back and forth from 2B to 1B, and I want more depth in case Tork doesn't work out.  

[RatkoVarda]

6 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

If the tradeoff is rushing Tork before they think he's ready, I can live with Schoop at 1B.  I don't think we're a playoff team next year, so it doesn't matter to me.  And if playing Schoop at 1B allows us to see what Paredes can do with some extended playing time, there is a benefit to that, as well.  As a reminder, Isaac is only 22 years old, so we should not be giving up on him prematurely.  

could also just leave Schoop at 2b, and get Parades (and Harold) ABs at all 4 infield spots until Tork is up

[Motor City Sonics]

According to Michael Balko on Twitter, one MLB insider says Correa to the Tigers is a 'Done Deal".   

 

I'm guessing.....

22 years, 1.6 Billion dollars

[Tenacious D]

9 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

According to Michael Balko on Twitter, one MLB insider says Correa to the Tigers is a 'Done Deal".   

 

I'm guessing.....

22 years, 1.6 Billion dollars

Ha.  Please don’t help legitimize that dork.

[Tigermojo]

I can see Haase getting some playing time in spring training at first base. He and Miggy can handle first until Torkelson is called up. I wouldn't give up a year of control over our top two prospects.

[Tenacious D]

I don't think the team has to manipulate anything--just don't think Tork is ready based on his Toledo performance (which wasn't bad).  Why not stagger him and Greene into the lineup?  Greene has shown he is ready, and I don't think Tork is far behind.

[Jim Cowan]

7 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I can see Haase getting some playing time in spring training at first base. He and Miggy can handle first until Torkelson is called up. I wouldn't give up a year of control over our top two prospects.

That's what should happen, I am totally fed up with the goofy lineups where little runts who can't hit, like Harold, are playing first base.  But what I really want is Tork there on opening day.

[Tiger337]

27 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I don't think the team has to manipulate anything--just don't think Tork is ready based on his Toledo performance (which wasn't bad).  Why not stagger him and Greene into the lineup?  Greene has shown he is ready, and I don't think Tork is far behind.

I don't think we can know who is ready based on stats, but Torkelson tends to start slow at each level, so I think his stats are deceiving.  I think either or both could be ready for opening day.  Or not.  I hope if they are ready that they don't delay them for control.  I want them to put the best team on the field from game one next year.  

 

[sabretooth]

23 hours ago, romad1 said:

Tony Paul is doubling down on them getting a second FA pitcher (possibly JV) and the big ticket 9 figure shortstop.   Hopefully, the Tigers don't cause the US to devalue the dollar to pay all these salaries. 

Look out, they might have a team payroll that approaches league average.....

Rodriquez and JV and a good SS would be a VERY nice offseason, especially compared to the crapfest of Alex Cobb and other spare parts I was starting to expect.

[Tiger337]

Maybe it's because I am surrounded by entitled Red Sox fans, but I think Tigers fans tend to be too resigned to their team having a small payroll.  It doesn't have to be that way.    

[sabretooth]

23 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

My feeling is a team is not hurt by signing good players to big contracts.  They get hurt when they sign the wrong players.  

Bingo

[sabretooth]

14 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Without doing a deep-dive...

And, oddly enough: The New York Yankees come closest (so far) to Model #2. Finishing 4th or worse for 6 seasons in a row, ending with 1 World Series Championship at the end of these 10 years. Oddly enough, they had a 51% winning % over these 10 years, but I'll take the 6 straight 4th or worse finishes, and a 4 year spree averaging 90 losses, to squeeze into this definition:

CRAPPY, 1 world series, and then DOMINANT:
NY Yankees	1987-1996	Crap Decade	791	760	51%	1 World Series Win, six 4th or worse finishes in a row
Led to:	1997-2006	DOMINANT	987	629	61%	3 More World Series Wins

Other than Jeter, who they drafted #6 after going 71-91 in 1991 with the 6th highest payroll in baseball (which doesn't seem to correlate to tanking).....the rest of the Yankees dynasty team was definitely populated by guys drafted and acquired by means other than tanking.

My point has always been against tanking.  There are plenty of teams who had rough years (and may have tanked for a year or two) who then rebounded with the help of a top pick.....I don't agree with that kind of tanking as a deliberate strategy, but I understand that teams probably exploit losing seasons to "go for" top picks.

I also understand that getting a generational top-1st-round pick can really change a team's fortunes....however, ponder the Angels with Trout -- he's a great great great player and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have him on my team, but he hasn't produced the KL2 only-championships-matter outcome, and for that matter, they haven't even been that good as a team with him.

My entire point is that building a winner, especially a fairly sustainable winner (sustainable means different things to different people, I know), requires excellence in all phases of player acquisition, development, and the adept management of roster resources, payroll, front office talent, etc.  That's pretty obvious....and frankly, there just aren't any examples of excellent organizations successfully using extended tanking over more than a year or two as a strategy for building a winning organization and roster. 

What I said above is not some unique insight....but it seems to be entirely overlooked in the hype about how wonderful Tork and Greene will be for us, and consequently how we as fans should embrace losing (I never will) AND reject signing FAs to not-short-term deals; FAs with 4+ year contracts are absolutely a necessary component of building and sustaining a winner....anyone who says they aren't is ignoring reality.

Accordingly, I believe that if the Tigers become successful with Mize, Tork, and Greene, it will be because of these players AND all of the OTHER things the organization did to build and sustain a winner, including longer-term FA contracts.

Edited November 16, 2021 by sabretooth