Useful Idiot Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 And of course, Kriedler possesses the two tools most coveted by both Avila and C Ilitch....cheap AND controllable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 9 hours ago, Useful Idiot said: My most persistent memory of Robbie from the 2021 season are the monkey shines he shoots back at the pitcher on his way walking back to the dug out. Don't know for sure what thought prevails in his head at such times, but it looks like some one who didn't get the Red Ryder BB gun they were expecting for Christmas. That's not to say tha t I am "anti" Robbie Grossman, but for someone to imply that they would be hugely pleasantly pleased with a Robbie Grossman caliber player to fill our needs at short stop, when there are Correa caliber players available......doesn't really make me feel the mojo. LOL - I don't know if he is like that all the time (I pity his team mates if he is) or if it's just his game face but for sure, no matter what it is when something doesn't go right for him on the field he's all like someone is trying to steal his manhood. The one that cracks me up is when he and the CF are close to a catch and he get called off it's like the guy took his lunch money - he usually has nothing but a scowl for his own team mate. But if that's what keeps his fire lit, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 23 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Does that take park effects into account? Because Eduardo played his entire career at Fenway. He's going to get a good boost by switching over to Comerica. Matz played his career at NY Mets, and Toronto... Eduardo: avg 2.6 WAR per year, and 1.29 WHIP average prior to last year. Last year he was a bit worse (1st year he allowed more hits than innings, 1.39 WHIP instead of his 1.29-ish...). And 29 versus 31 (to start next season). He's not an ace. He's an innings eating workhorse that slots in at #3 or 4 in a rotation and provides huge stability and above average pitching. I think Matz is a more than a minor drop-off from that and, at 31 to start next year, I'll take the Eduardo deals hands-over-fist over this Matz deal. That’s a good point about ballpark effects. I don’t know to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: The Freep reported that Avila said again on Monday how much they liked Kriedler. Maybe they think they can land a Story or the like with an offer of a big 1st yr AAV and an option to walk after a year. I hadn't considered a guy on a short option as a particularly good move for the Tigers, but if they are upping their view on Kreidler's viabiilty signing a guy with an out route could be more attractive to them than I thought. That would represent a big leap in Kreiders evaluation though. That’s an interesting option. I would have to think it’s a deal that only Story might consider for now to try to redo a contract year. Maybe if it’s close to spring trading and Baez is still waiting a deal, he’d consider it. But I honestly wouldn’t think either scenario are likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: LOL - I don't know if he is like that all the time (I pity his team mates if he is) or if it's just his game face but for sure, no matter what it is when something doesn't go right for him on the field he's all like someone is trying to steal his manhood. The one that cracks me up is when he and the CF are close to a catch and he get called off it's like the guy took his lunch money - he usually has nothing but a scowl for his own team mate. But if that's what keeps his fire lit, so be it. Well, let me emphasize that I am not averse to Grossman being a Tiger. I just see a confluence of circumstances, we need a shortstop, and there just happen to be "game changer" shortstops available. It boils down to a matter of being able to get better right away, versus not. So, if we hired a "Robbie Grossman" type player now to be shortstop, my objection would be based mostly on opportunity cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said: I just see a confluence of circumstances, we need a shortstop, and there just happen to be "game changer" shortstops available. It boils down to a matter of being able to get better right away, versus not. I've probably posted this before, but I believe the Tigers have a pretty hard set system when they go into the off season with a pre-determined budget and Avila spends right to that limit. So my take is that there are so many $ in the till and so far they have spent on Barnhardt and Rodriguez and they have to leave some for they guys they have to retain and whatever is left is going to be available for the SS. Second piece is that that is not going to cover what Correa is going to get. IMO it's all going to come down to how big the dollar drop off is from Correa as you go through the rest of the field. If they get to Baez (who by consensus seems to be the bottom of the list) and even he is going to get more than is left in the Tiger's pot, we are going to get plan B, otherwise we get one of the 4 other than Correa. But I don't see this FO trying to second-guess itself in extended negotiations, for good or ill they seem confident in their strategy. The deal they want is either there or it's not and if it's not they are going to move on spend those dollars somewhere else (pitchers?) and let the fans be PO'd. Edited November 26, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 It sucks that the Mets can do something stupid like sign a guy for 10 years and $341 million. Now everyone expects to get that deal. Doesn't matter if they play every game or are consistent year after year. That's the price tag now. That doesn't mean the Tigers are going to be as stupid as the Mets. I think we see other teams are also reluctant to make that mistake as well. The pitching market has moved fairly quickly while everyone waits to see what Correa will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 I doubt any of the top shortstops will accept a short term or front loaded deal to play in Comerica to reset their future market. Fair or not the impression seems to be "Death Valley" for hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 42 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: I doubt any of the top shortstops will accept a short term or front loaded deal to play in Comerica to reset their future market. Fair or not the impression seems to be "Death Valley" for hitters. again - it depends how many team are *really* serious about a new SS. With 5 guys out there it's certainly possible they exhaust the market before the last one gets a big payday. In that case that guy might look at who will be available next off-season (and I have not!) and see a potentially better market if he treads water for a season. Of course if that happens it means the price will probably have come down to where the Tigers will already have gotten their guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: ... Maybe they think they can land a Story or... Story is my "Grossman" signing. I would be extremely pleased with a signing of Story as our SS for at least the next 2 years (please no "1 and done" opt-out... at least 2 years before opt-outs come into play, please...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Is Avila sleeping in on Black Friday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 This is like being promised to go out for ice cream and dad instead comes back from the IGA with monkey puke yellow Sealtest ice milk. I really liked the idea of a fancy, good hitting slick SS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, IdahoBert said: This is like being promised to go out for ice cream and dad instead comes back from the IGA with monkey puke yellow Sealtest ice milk. I really liked the idea of a fancy, good hitting slick SS. actually I think we will get the 2nd or 3rd guy. I just doubt more than 2 teams are going to offer anyone much over 200M and I can see the Tigers staying in the game to that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 I know Baez is alot of people's 5th choice and who knows how serious these supposed contract talks were but it's nice to still hear rumors of us discussing things with one of the top 5 guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I know Baez is alot of people's 5th choice and who knows how serious these supposed contract talks were but it's nice to still hear rumors of us discussing things with one of the top 5 guys. At this point, I'd be surprised if we didn't get one of the Top 5 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 I expect them to get one of the big five. I have my preferences, but I won't be disappointed in any of them. I WILL be disappointed if they don't get one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: The Freep reported that Avila said again on Monday how much they liked Kriedler. Maybe they think they can land a Story or the like with an offer of a big 1st yr AAV and an option to walk after a year. I hadn't considered a guy on a short option as a particularly good move for the Tigers, but if they are upping their view on Kreidler's viabiilty signing a guy with an out route could be more attractive to them than I thought. That would represent a big leap in Kreiders evaluation though. maybe laying the groundwork for failing to sign any of the big free agents? "we liked our in house talent"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: 10 and 340 for correa or 8 and 200 for baez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, buddha said: 10 and 340 for correa or 8 and 200 for baez? I'd go Correa in that scenario. Now if we could get Baez for say 5/125 then I'd take him. I just don't like the idea of being committed to him for 8 years, if we're going to be committed to a player that long I'd rather it be the younger better player in Correa even if it cost 9 million more a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 34 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I know Baez is alot of people's 5th choice and who knows how serious these supposed contract talks were but it's nice to still hear rumors of us discussing things with one of the top 5 guys. Yes it is. He would help quite a bit. Hopefully the cost is not too prohibitive (years/dollars) and allows another upgrade elsewhere. Just seems a bit like CCorrea has a price set based on what Lindor received. Maybe Texas is offering him a big time splash to be the franchise face for their rebuild going forward. It seems the Tig brass is working on the SS position upgrade with some determination. IMHO, any one of the top 5 SS will help this club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 11 minutes ago, buddha said: 10 and 340 for correa or 8 and 200 for baez? Correa. If they can get Baez for 5-6 years, then it's a good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Correa. If they can get Baez for 5-6 years, then it's a good question. Yes, if they could get Baez for 5 years I would rather have that than Correa for 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Not sure how I feel about Baez being one of their top targets, although it has been amusing seeing Mets fans on Twitter being surprised that he may open to leaving them for the Tigers. Like, they are a dumpster fire atm lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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