Motor City Sonics Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Some people hear they are talking to Baez and they get disappointed. If they aren't talking to every free agent shortstop and if they aren't talking to every team who might have a shortstop to trade then they aren't doing their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Longgone said: I wouldn't give any weight to anything reported. I think a lot of the reporting is interesting and impacts my view of the likelihood of signing Correa, I just don't buy the idea that anything that anything that's been reported to-date means that signing Correa is impossible. It all looks like a negotiation to me, a lot of which is playing out in the press. The Tigers are trying to get the best deal for their money among the five shortstops, Carlos Correa is trying to get what he thinks he's owed. And with respect to Correa, who knows... he may think he's worth 10/341, but maybe he'll find that no teams think he's worth that. Edited November 27, 2021 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Longgone said: I wouldn't give any weight to anything reported. yeah, I don't think it's safe to say any of them have been dismissed. All that is really safe to say is that they are pursuing free agent shortstops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 5 hours ago, Tenacious D said: This again? Enough of Correa being injury prone—he played in over 90% of his team’s game the last two seasons. Your statement might not age well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: To all those preferring Baez on the shorter deal... No thank you. I'd rather Correa at 10 years/$340 mill than Baez at 5 years/ $125 mill. If it's Story I would be interested, but not Baez. I really like Correa but as a business owner I am choosing Baez every time if it’s those two choices. Or should I say Baez plus the other player 9 million brings me and the salary flexibility of 215 million dollars. Your heart is too a flutter for Carlos my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: Some people hear they are talking to Baez and they get disappointed. If they aren't talking to every free agent shortstop and if they aren't talking to every team who might have a shortstop to trade then they aren't doing their jobs. On this point I definitely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 53 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: I really like Correa but as a business owner I am choosing Baez every time if it’s those two choices. Or should I say Baez plus the other player 9 million brings me and the salary flexibility of 215 million dollars.... That difference in salary is meaningless when your team's entire salary is at the bottom. It also means nothing when $30+ Mill/ year comes off the books after 2023. And when the roster is built primarily on young kids... a vet contract or two? What does that have to do with flexibility when the team is paying nothing to all these kids? Having Correa instead of Baez will in NO WAY WHATSOEVER prevent the team from signing any other player... especially at $9 million. And how flexible is having Baez when he slows down (hand-eye coordination), and hits nothing, with no power, with no plan to do anything at the plate except swing and miss, and no ability to get on base because he has never had that ability? This is coming soon, very soon, to a theatre near you. 53 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: ... Your heart is too a flutter for Carlos my friend. Nah... I just want the best. Correa or BUST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: And how flexible is having Baez when he slows down (hand-eye coordination), and hits nothing, with no power, This is a specious assumption, and no more likely for him than anyone else. He likely won't ever walk much, but the rest is baseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 I suspect Baez won't age well, but I doubt he'll lose power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 44 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: That difference in salary is meaningless when your team's entire salary is at the bottom. It also means nothing when $30+ Mill/ year comes off the books after 2023. And when the roster is built primarily on young kids... a vet contract or two? What does that have to do with flexibility when the team is paying nothing to all these kids? Having Correa instead of Baez will in NO WAY WHATSOEVER prevent the team from signing any other player... especially at $9 million. And how flexible is having Baez when he slows down (hand-eye coordination), and hits nothing, with no power, with no plan to do anything at the plate except swing and miss, and no ability to get on base because he has never had that ability? This is coming soon, very soon, to a theatre near you. Nah... I just want the best. Correa or BUST!!! Don't forget over 10 years those "young kids" will get expensive but fair enough I hope you (we) get your player but if not don't despair. Baez is only a year older than Carlos so his shelf life should last 5 years and his salary will be off the books when Skubal-Mize-Green and Tork contracts surge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Your statement might not age well. Why? If he gets hurt? Chances are he will again in his career, but there is zero evidence that’s certain. He has the same chance any other player has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said: Don't forget over 10 years those "young kids" will get expensive but fair enough I hope you (we) get your player but if not don't despair. Baez is only a year older than Carlos so his shelf life should last 5 years and his salary will be off the books when Skubal-Mize-Green and Tork contracts surge. I won't despair... But I will be disappointed as I'm not a believer in Baez... I'll be happy that they addressed the SS situation and he will be a huge upgrade while he is still effective. But Correa and Story are 1 and 2 on my list and I have my reasons... I'll take what we can get though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: I suspect Baez won't age well, but I doubt he'll lose power. I think Baez has some intriguing aspects. His swing seems to have a good deal of wasted motion - if he ever put his mind in to cleaning it up it could be interesting to see what he could do. Obviously at this point in his career that seems pretty unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: I think Baez has some intriguing aspects. His swing seems to have a good deal of wasted motion - if he ever put his mind in to cleaning it up it could be interesting to see what he could do. Obviously at this point in his career that seems pretty unlikely. When he went to the Mets last year he became MUCH more patient at the plate, so who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: When he went to the Mets last year he became MUCH more patient at the plate, so who knows? His Mets career, one third of a season, was completely unlike his Cubs career: he got on base. His OBP was .371, he had never even done .330 for a full season before. He cut way back on his strikeouts...still more than one per game but just barely. So, who knows? He sucked big time in 2020, bounced back a little bit during his Cubs tenure in 2021, and then some kind of transformation happened with the Mets. Is it significant? Or just small sample size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: His Mets career, one third of a season, was completely unlike his Cubs career: he got on base. His OBP was .371, he had never even done .330 for a full season before. He cut way back on his strikeouts...still more than one per game but just barely. So, who knows? He sucked big time in 2020, bounced back a little bit during his Cubs tenure in 2021, and then some kind of transformation happened with the Mets. Is it significant? Or just small sample size? He's still better that what we have at this point? Is he my favorite? No, not at all, but he's still a big improvement over less than zero. Maybe he just clicked with the right coaches in New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: He's still better that what we have at this point? Is he my favorite? No, not at all, but he's still a big improvement over less than zero. Maybe he just clicked with the right coaches in New York. His k-rates from 2016-19 were not egregious, so maybe he got into a bad mechanical habit, or was suffering from a minor injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 13 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I suspect Baez won't age well, but I doubt he'll lose power. Most players don't age well. The ones who age least well are one dimensional sluggers whose power is based on strength rather than bat speed, and that is not Baez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Longgone said: Most players don't age well. The ones who age least well are one dimensional sluggers whose power is based on strength rather than bat speed, and that is not Baez. Players that draw walks age better than players who don't because that's a skill that doesn't deteriorate fast. Fielding skill also tends to go quicker than hitting skill. He does have an unusual skill set though, so it's hard to find comparisons. For what it's worth (not a lot), the most similar batter at the same age was Jonathan Schoop. Edited November 28, 2021 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Since we all seem to be agreed that the 5 top SS FAs would be a significant improvement to the team, I would shift the focus to dollars and years. I, like many here, am generally okay with the idea that a star will fade at the end of a long contract. But length does matter (😎). I would like them to sign one of these guys to the shortest deal that still makes sense. For some, like Semien, that is partly age related, but the basic idea is to get the best years they have left in the tank. And also to have the money after the contract is over to apply to other areas of need. We have bemoaned to feast or famine nature of the team’s fortunes and want a more sustainable competitive future. i hope AA is getting all the player asks and options figured out, but that the rare glut of top SSs means they can target a shorter length as a priority. The idea of opt-outs is interesting, but complicates things. TL;DR Find out what the shortest contract each SS will take, rank them with other factors and get one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 One guy we haven't talked a lot about is Corey Seager.... his camp has arguably been the quietest of the five. I wonder if the speculation that he may have to move off short in a couple of years is a factor with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said: Find out what the shortest contract each SS will take, rank them with other factors and get one. this. These are all very good ball players, all capable of putting up 5-6 WAR seasons. The last SSs we had that gave us a 6 WAR season were Trammell (6 times) Guillen (once) and we averaged 92 wins when they did. Edited November 28, 2021 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 On 11/26/2021 at 11:55 AM, gehringer_2 said: IMO it's all going to come down to how big the dollar drop off is from Correa as you go through the rest of the field. If they get to Baez (who by consensus seems to be the bottom of the list) and even he is going to get more than is left in the Tiger's pot, we are going to get plan B, otherwise we get one of the 4 other than Correa. It boils down to a matter of economics, in several different directions. Clearly the team hopes that I'll either get excited enough to actually buy some tickets, and consume over priced concessions, or at least watch the games on TV and support their sponsors. But, I'm not really drawn by "fiscal responsibility", I'm not gonna shell out $60+ a ticket just to sit out in some sweaty stadium with a bunch of beer swilling lunatics to celebrate a perennially elusive future . As a fan I've been suffering through several lean years, and it's now come time for them to put some steak on the table. They either want my fan dollars or they don't ... consequently it's time for the check book to "step up", vapid rhetoric about the vices of drunken sailors is not going to seduce me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said: It boils down to a matter of economics, in several different directions. Clearly the team hopes that I'll either get excited enough to actually buy some tickets, and consume over priced concessions, or at least watch the games on TV and support their sponsors. But, I'm not really drawn by "fiscal responsibility", I'm not gonna shell out $60+ a ticket just to sit out in some sweaty stadium with a bunch of beer swilling lunatics to celebrate a perennially elusive future . As a fan I've been suffering through several lean years, and it's now come time for them to put some steak on the table. They either want my fan dollars or they don't ... consequently it's time for the check book to "step up", vapid rhetoric about the vices of drunken sailors is not going to seduce me. There are no fiscal responsibility trophies! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: One guy we haven't talked a lot about is Corey Seager.... his camp has arguably been the quietest of the five. I wonder if the speculation that he may have to move off short in a couple of years is a factor with him Could be that - for pretty much the same reasons I would see him as the worst fit for Detroit because we all assume (because he talks about it all the time!) Al is looking for plus D for his young pitchers and even now Seager has a fairly average glove compared to the other 4. And since he would be such a good fit for NYY..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.