2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[Tiger337]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:03 AM, chasfh said:

To be fair, I didn’t say you’ll love him, the person. I said you’ll love watching him.

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I suspect I'll enjoy watching him in the field more than at the plate.  

[RatkoVarda]

Garneau and the rest of them, except Boyd as previously announced, tendered a contract

[bobrob2004]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:03 AM, chasfh said:

To be fair, I didn’t say you’ll love him, the person. I said you’ll love watching him.

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But I want to love a player as much as Justin Verlander loves Jose Altuve.  

[sabretooth]

  On 12/1/2021 at 1:59 AM, Tiger337 said:

That greedy bastard needs to stop messing with the game.  Yeah, I know it's the owners, but more stupid crap has happened under Manfred than any other commissioner in my lifetime.  

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The cozying up to gambling, the idiotic extra inning runner, two different baseballs deployed in the same season.....it's a lot of stupid stuff to absorb.  These particular changes are not good signs at minimum, and in the case of gambling, I think the effects will be felt in ways that we cannot predict at this point. 

For example, I fear that gambling scandals won't taint the game so much as they will expose the public's evolving acceptance of cheating in sports as a way of life, and undermine the idea of sporting integrity as a principle.

Edited December 1, 2021 by sabretooth

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:22 AM, RatkoVarda said:

Garneau and the rest of them, except Boyd as previously announced, tendered a contract

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Odd. They haven't updated the 40 on the MLB page since before Greiner became a FA. They usually keep it up to date.

[mtutiger]

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:20 AM, gehringer_2 said:

Odd. They haven't updated the 40 on the MLB page since before Greiner became a FA. They usually keep it up to date.

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They were up till 3:45 this morning, but them some slack lol

[RatkoVarda]

just about 24 hours to go before no transactions for 10-12 weeks. Come on Al, give us one more

[casimir]

  On 11/30/2021 at 8:18 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

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This is borderline frightening.

[casimir]

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:48 AM, RatkoVarda said:

just about 24 hours to go before no transactions for 10-12 weeks. Come on Al, give us one more

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Wouldn't that be something if they announced another addition right at the last moment?

[romad1]

  On 12/1/2021 at 12:28 PM, casimir said:

This is borderline frightening.

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It appears like a bunch of pre-verts made that show to spread their preversions. 

[1776]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:52 AM, sabretooth said:

The cozying up to gambling, the idiotic extra inning runner, two different baseballs deployed in the same season.....it's a lot of stupid stuff to absorb.  These particular changes are not good signs at minimum, and in the case of gambling, I think the effects will be felt in ways that we cannot predict at this point. 

For example, I fear that gambling scandals won't taint the game so much as they will expose the public's evolving acceptance of cheating in sports as a way of life, and undermine the idea of sporting integrity as a principle.

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Not surprisingly, not a word about this on MLB.com. 

[chasfh]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:05 AM, Tiger337 said:

I suspect I'll enjoy watching him in the field more than at the plate.  

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You might like him at the plate sometimes. You will definitely like him on the bases.

FWIW, Baez did undergo a bit of a change when he went to New York. He cut his K rate from 36.3% to 28.5%, more in line with his prior career norm (which, yes, I acknowledge was bad enough), but he also hiked his walk rate from 4.2% to 7.0%, which would be the highest of his career. And it’s not as though all his walks were clustered in just one or two games: in Chicago he walked in 15 of 92 games, which is 16% of games. In New York he walked in 11 of 46 games, which is 24% of games. That contributed to his OBP-AVG diff of .072 as a Met, which is by far higher than any one season that went before it.

Maybe this means nothing. Maybe it’s all dumb luck. Or maybe a fresh set of eyes from Mets batting coaches led Javy to become just a touch more patient, as opposed to the Cubs just letting Javy be Javy. If that’s true, maybe Scott Coolbaugh and A.J. can build on that. I think that’s worth hoping for.

It costs nothing to be optimistic about it. After all, he’s ours now, so we might as well root for that. 😁

[chasfh]

  On 12/1/2021 at 1:59 AM, Tiger337 said:

That greedy bastard needs to stop messing with the game.  Yeah, I know it's the owners, but more stupid crap has happened under Manfred than any other commissioner in my lifetime.  

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Addicted to homers

[RedRamage]

It took me way to long to figure out that this was just one person and not a couple of siblings.

[oblong]

  On 12/1/2021 at 2:33 PM, RedRamage said:

It took me way to long to figure out that this was just one person and not a couple of siblings.

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He should have a kid and name him Romine

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/1/2021 at 2:22 PM, chasfh said:

You might like him at the plate sometimes. You will definitely like him on the bases.

FWIW, Baez did undergo a bit of a change when he went to New York. He cut his K rate from 36.3% to 28.5%, more in line with his prior career norm (which, yes, I acknowledge was bad enough), but he also hiked his walk rate from 4.2% to 7.0%, which would be the highest of his career. And it’s not as though all his walks were clustered in just one or two games: in Chicago he walked in 15 of 92 games, which is 16% of games. In New York he walked in 11 of 46 games, which is 24% of games. That contributed to his OBP-AVG diff of .072 as a Met, which is by far higher than any one season that went before it.

Maybe this means nothing. Maybe it’s all dumb luck. Or maybe a fresh set of eyes from Mets batting coaches led Javy to become just a touch more patient, as opposed to the Cubs just letting Javy be Javy. If that’s true, maybe Scott Coolbaugh and A.J. can build on that. I think that’s worth hoping for.

It costs nothing to be optimistic about it. After all, he’s ours now, so we might as well root for that. 😁

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maybe moving to the bigger ballpark in NY affected his approach. If so CoPa should have at least as much effect.

[chasfh]

I do wonder about the coaching part. Joe Maddon is famously hands-off with his players, and David Ross played with Javy, so it might be hard for Ross to get Javy to do anything different. So conditions were right for Javy to be allowed to just do what he does. I definitely believe he will be coached more in Detroit than in Chicago, at least, and I also gotta believe he knows that's coming.

Edited December 1, 2021 by chasfh

[Motor City Sonics]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:03 AM, chasfh said:

To be fair, I didn’t say you’ll love him, the person. I said you’ll love watching him.

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Exactly Frank Zappa.........or  Mike Maddux.  

[mtutiger]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:22 PM, chasfh said:

I do wonder about the coaching part. Joe Maddon is famously hands-off with his players, and David Ross played with Javy, so it might be hard for Ross to get Javy to do anything different. So conditions were right for Javy to be allowed to just do what he does. I definitely believe he will be coached more in Detroit than in Chicago, at least, and I also gotta believe he knows that's coming.

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This may be a bit homerish, but he also gets to play with Miguel Cabrera, who has been known to help other hitters in their development (ie. JD, Nick). Maybe that influence will have some marginal help as well

Edited December 1, 2021 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:11 PM, mtutiger said:

This may be a bit homerish, but he also gets to play with Miguel Cabrera, who has been known to help other hitters in their development (ie. JD, Nick). Maybe that influence will have some marginal help as well

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I do wonder how much of their improvement came from just watching Miggy work, and how much came from obtaining hitting instruction outside the organization. Maybe J.D. and Nick should give Javy their coaches' dets.

[SoCalTiger]

  On 12/1/2021 at 3:22 PM, chasfh said:

I do wonder about the coaching part. Joe Maddon is famously hands-off with his players, and David Ross played with Javy, so it might be hard for Ross to get Javy to do anything different. So conditions were right for Javy to be allowed to just do what he does. I definitely believe he will be coached more in Detroit than in Chicago, at least, and I also gotta believe he knows that's coming.

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Maybe Grossman will be a good example. He had career high in homers while walking 100 times. At least Hinch can emphasize patience equals homers ?

Having said that as is Baez is our best bat heading into 2022 is he not ? Best defender also. I think he was 8th in all of baseball.

Edited December 1, 2021 by SoCalTiger

[bobrob2004]

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:34 PM, SoCalTiger said:

Having said that as is Baez is our best bat heading into 2022 is he not ? Best defender also. I think he was 8th in all of baseball.

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Baez has the most power, but best overall could be debatable (unless you think he can sustain what he did with the Mets for a full season, which I find doubtful). 

#	Name	Team	G	PA	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	xwOBA	wRC+	BsR	Off	Def	WAR
1
1	Jeimer Candelario	DET	149	626	16	75	67	0	10.4%	21.6%	.172	.333	.271	.351	.443	.344	.357	119	1.0	15.3	-4.7	3.2
2	Javier Baez	- - -	138	547	31	80	87	18	5.1%	33.6%	.229	.352	.265	.319	.494	.344	.324	116	3.0	14.1	4.2	3.6
3	Robbie Grossman	DET	156	671	23	88	67	20	14.6%	23.1%	.176	.286	.239	.357	.415	.337	.335	114	2.0	13.5	-9.5	2.7

 Candelario had a better wRC+ last year and Grossman's wasn't far behind Baez (although Grossman did have a career year). 

[SoCalTiger]

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:49 PM, bobrob2004 said:

Baez has the most power, but best overall could be debatable (unless you think he can sustain what he did with the Mets for a full season, which I find doubtful). 

#	Name	Team	G	PA	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	xwOBA	wRC+	BsR	Off	Def	WAR
1
1	Jeimer Candelario	DET	149	626	16	75	67	0	10.4%	21.6%	.172	.333	.271	.351	.443	.344	.357	119	1.0	15.3	-4.7	3.2
2	Javier Baez	- - -	138	547	31	80	87	18	5.1%	33.6%	.229	.352	.265	.319	.494	.344	.324	116	3.0	14.1	4.2	3.6
3	Robbie Grossman	DET	156	671	23	88	67	20	14.6%	23.1%	.176	.286	.239	.357	.415	.337	.335	114	2.0	13.5	-9.5	2.7

 Candelario had a better wRC+ last year and Grossman's wasn't far behind Baez (although Grossman did have a career year). 

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Thanks for that. Lets hope they all do better !

[Motor City Sonics]

So baseball used two different balls last year? 

I mean, how much more does it take to remove  Rob Manfred at this point?   He's a joke.  

[Tiger337]

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:34 PM, SoCalTiger said:

Maybe Grossman will be a good example. He had career high in homers while walking 100 times. At least Hinch can emphasize patience equals homers ?

Having said that as is Baez is our best bat heading into 2022 is he not ? Best defender also. I think he was 8th in all of baseball.

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He will probably be the Tigers best defender.  The only one who has the potential to be better is probably Hill and we don't know how much he will play.  I am not sure where you get 8th in all of baseball.  The numbers didn't show it last year, but he was one of the best in 2019.  There is no doubt he is a strong defender, but I am wondering where you got 8th best.