2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[Fox Wismic]

https://www.baseballrumors.me/2021/12/mlb-rumor-more-specifics-on-cubs-offer.html

I'm beginning to think signing Correa would've been a huge mistake.

[1776]

I have been opposed to signing Correa from the very outset. 

[casimir]

I wasn't much inclined for Baez at the beginning, but also thought Correa would be too much salary/years.  I think Baez' salary is a season or two long, but I think it'll be a better fit than Correa.  Still curious what happens with Story.  He could end up with the most team friendly deal (salary & seasons). 

But I am glad the Tigers have SS figured out before the shutdown.  This simplifies the Tigers' shopping once free agency resumes.  I suspect the CBA won't be finalized until end of February, the free agent frenzy will be crazy as guys will want to know where they will be and its quite possible that we see a whole slew of short term deals or quick applying opt outs.  The Tigers still need pitching, so focus efforts there and hopefully they can grab another solid SP or two.

[chasfh]

I’m not clear on what the Tigers were trying to accomplish by offering 10/275 to Correa, since it was well established that his asking price was well into the threes.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I’m not clear on what the Tigers were trying to accomplish by offering 10/275 to Correa, since it was well established that his asking price was well into the threes.

is it still the largest offer he has received to date? What he says he wants and what he gets might end up being quite different. If the Tigers looked around the league in their judgement no-one was going to give him what he wanted, they had nothing to lose by making an offer they were willing to pay. Call it due diligence, or just keeping some faith with the fan base.

True, the internal contradiction is that over the years it's pretty obvious the Tigers always want to do their business early, but a "you know you aren't really going to get what you want offer" to a player is more likely to yield a deal if it comes near the end of the FA process than the beginning. Of course the other thing we don't know is how many teams had already made Correa other offers he had rejected.

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

is it still the largest offer he has received to date? What he says he wants and what he gets might end up being quite different. If the Tigers looked around the league in their judgement no-one was going to give him what he wanted, they had nothing to lose by making an offer they were willing to pay. Call it due diligence, or just keeping some faith with the fan base.

True, the internal contradiction is that over the years it's pretty obvious the Tigers always want to do their business early, but a "you know you aren't really going to get what you want offer" to a player is more likely to yield a deal if it comes near the end of the FA process than the beginning. Of course the other thing we don't know is how many teams had already made Correa other offers he had rejected.

There may be something to this. It seems unlikely he lands on the Yankees because those players who are left are still sore at him from 2017. Some believe Houston cut ties with him for good but I think they might be the frontrunner to get him back, even if it's shorter length and much higher AAV. But if the unlikely happens and nobody else offers as much as 10/275, does he come back and ask for the offer again? And are the Tigers really up for committing $400+ million to just two guys after getting burned on so many other big deals lately?

[Jim Cowan]

I certainly hope not, that would qualify as "as stupid as the Rangers".  Sorry Correa, that shortstop job has been filled and we are moving on for more pitching.

[1776]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I’m not clear on what the Tigers were trying to accomplish by offering 10/275 to Correa, since it was well established that his asking price was well into the threes.

Putting something out there like the 10/275 removes the argument down the road that the Tigers didn’t try to snag Correa. If in fact, the offer was made and he turned it down, it puts Correa on record as saying no the Tigers. It can’t be said that the Tigers didn’t make an effort. From a PR perspective, good move on the Tigers part.

Edited December 24, 2021 by 1776

[RandyMarsh]

I'm sure the 10/275 provided a 2 year opt out like the Baez contract. They may be were trying to convince Correa that this contract gives him long term security in case something happens but if he has two great seasons he could opt out and get a 300 million dollar contract which would ultimately mean he'd make 350 total.

I think if he had 2 more great and most importantly healthy seasons he may be able to fetch a 300 million dollar deal in 2 years as an elite SS who then would have just turned 29 and at that point put together several elite and healthy seasons in a row which would dispel the injury prone concerns that some teams may have right now.  

Edited December 24, 2021 by RandyMarsh

[bobrob2004]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I’m not clear on what the Tigers were trying to accomplish by offering 10/275 to Correa, since it was well established that his asking price was well into the threes.

To appease the fans.  "See I'm willing to spend money now.  Correa is just too greedy."  

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, 1776 said:

Putting something out there like the 10/275 removes the argument down the road that the Tigers didn’t try to snag Correa. If in fact, the offer was made and he turned it down, it puts Correa on record as saying no the Tigers. It can’t be said that the Tigers didn’t make an effort. From a PR perspective, good move on the Tigers part.

agreed

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, 1776 said:

Putting something out there like the 10/275 removes the argument down the road that the Tigers didn’t try to snag Correa. If in fact, the offer was made and he turned it down, it puts Correa on record as saying no the Tigers. It can’t be said that the Tigers didn’t make an effort. From a PR perspective, good move on the Tigers part.

Except it was well-known that Correa's goal was to exceed the 10/341 Lindor contract, so everybody, including the Tigers, knew he would reject the 10/275. So in that sense, it can be said that the Tigers didn't make any effort.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm sure the 10/275 provided a 2 year opt out like the Baez contract. They may be were trying to convince Correa that this contract gives him long term security in case something happens but if he has two great seasons he could opt out and get a 300 million dollar contract which would ultimately mean he'd make 350 total.

I think if he had 2 more great and most importantly healthy seasons he may be able to fetch a 300 million dollar deal in 2 years as an elite SS who then would have just turned 29 and at that point put together several elite and healthy seasons in a row which would dispel the injury prone concerns that some teams may have right now.  

the opt out problem for Correa in that scenario is that even if he has two great years, in the eyes of most buyers, as a short stop he is probably still losing value faster with age than performance can overcome. 

[Timmitch55]

I am happy we called his bluff. Anyone turning down 10/275, well.......

[Tenacious D]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:53 PM, chasfh said:

Except it was well-known that Correa's goal was to exceed the 10/341 Lindor contract, so everybody, including the Tigers, knew he would reject the 10/275. So in that sense, it can be said that the Tigers didn't make any effort.

I don’t see that contact materializing for Correa.  Lindor had better timing and Steven Cohen.  None of these free agents have that this offseason.

[1776]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:53 PM, chasfh said:

Except it was well-known that Correa's goal was to exceed the 10/341 Lindor contract, so everybody, including the Tigers, knew he would reject the 10/275. So in that sense, it can be said that the Tigers didn't make any effort.

The Tigers put Correa on record as turning down a 10/275 offering. On this board and elsewhere, this isn’t really a good look for Correa. A lot of baseball fans are more likely to agree with the Tigers numbers as opposed to Correa’s expectations. It’s about perception. The Tigers may not have even intended to sign him to begin with, who knows. For that matter, he may not even want to be in Detroit. 

[gehringer_2]

58 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t see that contact materializing for Correa.  Lindor had better timing and Steven Cohen.  None of these free agents have that this offseason.

Yeah - I don't see what why what a guy is asking for is any kind of hard determinant on what you might want to offer. Your FO may have a more realistic idea of what he is going to have to settle for than he admits to.

[Jim Cowan]

Hey maybe the Rangers will sign him.

[Jim Cowan]

4 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t see that contact materializing for Correa.  Lindor had better timing and Steven Cohen.  None of these free agents have that this offseason.

Yes I think that the Tigers offered him what they think he is worth, and weren't influenced by his supposed desire to match Lindor.

[Wockenfussy]

What Timmitch55 said. How does anyone turn down 10 years, $275 Million? And what does that say about them? With less leverage than before that offer was made and declined, Correa may wind up with less. 

[IdahoBert]

I don’t think the Lindor contract signed in April is the gold standard going forward. One contract by one team doesn’t create the baseline for everyone else. Especially in a year when a new CBA is going to be negotiated.

The owners are wily operatives of the class struggle of capital v labor. Although competitive to a fault, neither surreptitious collusion nor collective self-interest are beyond the owners when required. There’s a reason Correa did not get what he wanted right out of the gate. Ownership is fighting back. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

I don’t think the Lindor contract signed in April is the gold standard going forward. One contract by one team doesn’t create the baseline for everyone else. Especially in a year when a new CBA is going to be negotiated.

The owners are wily operatives of the class struggle of capital v labor. Although competitive to a fault, neither surreptitious collusion nor collective self-interest are beyond the owners when required. There’s a reason Correa did not get what he wanted right out of the gate. Ownership is fighting back. 

remember, it took a while before any one matched ARod's contract. Not every new contract set a new baseline. Correa's hoping Lindor is not ARod. Maybe he'll be right, maybe not.

[Tiger337]

I think the Seager 10/325 contract is probably the gold standard for this winter.  Correa will probably get at least that.  Most of the big money teams didn't do much before the lock out.  

[Motor City Sonics]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think the Seager 10/325 contract is probably the gold standard for this winter.  Correa will probably get at least that.  Most of the big money teams didn't do much before the lock out.  

I think he wants a yearly salary between Lindor and Max Scherzer.   So somewhere between $35 mil and $40 mil.    And he'll also want 10 years.   I don't know who will give that to him.  Astros won't commit to that time.   Seems like the Yankees don't want to make that kind of commitment (they have SS in their system anyway).    I guess that would put the Dodgers at the top of the list, but they may finally commit to Gavin Lux full time with Trea Turner at SS.  I know the Mariners want to make a big splash, but they might still remember getting burned by the Cano deal.    I'm going to stick to my original prediction that he signs with the Angels.    Yeah, they need pitching, but the big pitchers aren't there and they spend foolishly.    Angels.  10 years, 360 million.   Maybe he signs an insane 1 year deal somewhere.  

[casimir]

51 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I think he wants a yearly salary between Lindor and Max Scherzer.   So somewhere between $35 mil and $40 mil.    And he'll also want 10 years.   I don't know who will give that to him. 

I am having the same problem right now.  But, hey, one of these days, maybe....