2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[Jim Cowan]

Avila and his staff consistently improve the team every off-season, they do a good job at the draft, at Rule 5, at free agency, and at trades.  I don't see why this deal would surprise anyone except the "should of got more for JD" types.

[Sports_Freak]

8 minutes ago, KL2 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/alex-claudio-traded-to-brewers-by-rangers-c301825932

https://www.mlb.com/news/omar-narvaez-trade-to-brewers

https://www.camdenchat.com/2016/5/23/11756390/orioles-news-brian-matusz-trade-braves-salary-dump

https://www.mlb.com/news/yankees-trade-sonny-gray-to-reds-c302890072

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2804986-paul-goldschmidt-traded-to-cardinals-for-luke-weaver-carson-kelly-more

https://www.mlb.com/news/orioles-trade-tanner-scott-cole-sulser-to-marlins

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/mlb/news/cardinals-john-mozeliak-randy-arozarena-trade/1s2xkcb8d386l1omopmkuyhqtq

 

Yeah, Lee explained it. I'm just glad it's not regular picks. Can you imaging if the Tigers traded away regular picks? It could have been a disaster.

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Avila and his staff consistently improve the team every off-season, they do a good job at the draft, at Rule 5, at free agency, and at trades.  I don't see why this deal would surprise anyone except the "should of got more for JD" types.

Avila has made his share of mistakes in free agency. One pitcher comes to mind....

[TigerNation]

12 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Iirc we either traded one or received one in the Sanchez deal with the Marlins way back when. I think that was the first year it started. 

Edit: thinking back Im pretty sure we traded it cause I remember in Keith Law's write up(hates the Tigers) of the trade he was complaining about us getting the pick in the first place cause of our then high payroll. 

Yeah we did a pick swap with the Marlins as part of the trade. It was the first trade of draft picks.

[Tiger337]

20 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Yeah, Lee explained it. I'm just glad it's not regular picks. Can you imaging if the Tigers traded away regular picks? It could have been a disaster.

What if they accumulated picks instead?  

[RandyMarsh]

I remember the Mize draft where many experts thought he was so ready he could help a playoff team that year say that we could've gotten a King's ransom for the pick if we were able to trade it. 

[KL2]

34 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Yeah, Lee explained it. I'm just glad it's not regular picks. Can you imaging if the Tigers traded away regular picks? It could have been a disaster.

I know i was mainly just following up with your point of not remembering that there ahve been lots of trades with picks and some with some very high profile names.

[Sports_Freak]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What if they accumulated picks instead?  

Drafting in baseball is such a crapshoot. Taking a raw high school player or a college player who's a bit seasoned. It's why I love seeing a late round pick player make it.

[Sports_Freak]

With all the additions the Tigers made, a .500 season would be a bit disappointing. With higher expectations, comes greater disappointment. So we need to win the division. 😆😆

[Stanley70]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/rays/josh-lowe-666139

I am aware they have Lowe ready. It just seemed like a pretty big drop in value for Meadows who just a few years ago looked like one of the top young talents in the game. He had a 922 OPS and finished 14th in the MVP voting in 2019. And he's 26, not 34.

TB dumped Adames last year right before he had a mini breakout, lets hope Meadows can get back to where he was.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

Re the stadium in Minnesota...I recall hearing some discussion that the moisture drying out of the concrete was a factor in lowering the temperature on the field. Which in turn lead to fewer HR's  Sounds like barfly science...but...sometimes barflies are right

could be a contribution, but we had the numbers at the time and it really was weird, lots of below average cool evenings until late in that summer. MN is usually consistently hot in the summer - avg summer temp actually exceeds FLA.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

On the subject of park factors/humidors. One issue that hasn't been brought up here is that humidors will be used in all MLB parks this season...

Not sure what it means for Comerica..

SE MI is definitely on the high humidity end of things nationwide, so it should net out as an increase in travel as humidor balls will be drier than those left in the open air here.

[Tigeraholic1]

How does he not qualify for a pension (Not enough games I suppose)?  Only 4 games played and never got a hit, sad all around...

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Tigeraholic1

[1984Echoes]

4 hours ago, kdog said:

 

If this is correct(via Cody S), the only passable LH starter in the rest of the AL Central is Keuchel.

The other thing I would say:

About how Avila is putting together a team, is that he appears to be paying attention to Lefty-Righty balance, by going after a lot of SH'ers (I'm not saying that these guys are effective from both sides... just saying it's a focus...) to include Grossman, Candelario, Reyes, Willi... and a lefty-righty balance in the guys he signs or trades for (or Rule 5's..): Barnhart, Baddoo, Meadows, Haase, Baez, Schoop... He inherited or has prospects just coming up in Greene (L), Tork (R), Miggy (R)...

We are not dominated by either RH'ed hitters or LH'ed. And Hinch can stack a lineup on either side if he so wishes based on how Avila has constructed this team. IMO, I think that is a plus....

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

How does he not qualify for a pension (Not enough games I suppose)?  Only 4 games played and never got a hit, sad all around...

 

 

 

Fun fact: Ike grew up in Hamtramck. I met him when he was checking in to the Lakeland Holiday Inn during one of the fantasy camps I went to (either 2007 or 2008). He said his nickname growing up in the Mostly-Polish neighborhood he lived in was "Ike Blessitski".

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

How does he not qualify for a pension (Not enough games I suppose)?  Only 4 games played and never got a hit, sad all around...

 

 

 

I am surprised that he only played four games because I remember his name well.  I think it's because I used to look at the minor league stats in The Sporting News and saw his name often.  It's sad to hear that he is in such tough shape.   

[chasfh]

Fangraphs' Ben Clemens finally posted his take on last night's trade. Here's the elevator pitch:

I started out thinking this trade was a layup for the Tigers. I pretty quickly decided it was a layup for the Rays; I know our prospect rankings don’t reflect it, but I think Paredes is a more valuable player than Meadows straight up. But in the end, as I’m wont to do, I understand the Tigers’ motivation in making the trade, even if I think they gave up more than is optimal.

 

 

[Tenacious D]

Ben Clemens still lives at home.

[Tiger337]

A trade can be good for both teams, but I still like this trade for the Tigers.  I don't think Paredes will ever be as good as Meadows.  I get the impression that Paredes has always been more highly regarded by the saber community than the scouting community, so I am not surprised that FanGraphs would like him.

[KL2]

33 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

How does he not qualify for a pension (Not enough games I suppose)?  Only 4 games played and never got a hit, sad all around...

 

 

 

Need 10 years to be fully vetted, and played after 1970.

Need 34 games today to get the minimum

Edited April 5, 2022 by KL2

[Stanley70]

In 2021 fangraphs rated Parades as a 45 value prospect, role player. Now he's a better than Meadows. Here is their write up:

If there’s one thing Paredes can do, it’s hit. Indeed, that’s the one thing he can do, and has been doing for a while. He’s a career .277 hitter in the minors and amassed a .291/.376/.425 line in 166 Double-A games leading up to 2020, which he spent at the alt site until he was given a month-long big league carafe at the end of the summer. Then Paredes went to Mexico, where he has spent each of the last three offseasons, and as usual was the best hitter in the entire Pacific League. He’s quite comfortable in the box, and shows balance throughout his swing and fantastic hand-eye coordination. Playing winter ball has helped Paredes keep his high-maintenance build in check and it’s better now than it was when he was in the low minors with the Cubs. He’s just not a very good athlete or defender and doesn’t have the thump typical of a corner infielder who can’t field well. There aren’t many contact-only third basemen in the game, and this, along with concerns about his athletic longevity, caused us to slide Paredes out of the back of the Top 100. He’s still a likely big league role player.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Stanley70

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

A trade can be good for both teams, but I still like this trade for the Tigers.  I don't think Paredes will ever be as good as Meadows.  I get the impression that Paredes has always been more highly regarded by the saber community than the scouting community, so I am not surprised that FanGraphs would like him.

If anyone can unlock the value of Isaac Paredes, a top-flight bat-to-ball guy who walks more than he strikes out, it's the Rays.

That said, Ike's gonna have a hell of a time breaking into the mix there anytime soon. The Rays' middle infield is spoken for the next several years, there's a big logjam at third base, and I don't know who's gonna move Randy Arozarena out of the starboard-side DH spot. Paredes gonna have to crush it at Durham to force his way into the conversation—otherwise, he might just get packaged into another trade sometime down the road.

Edited April 5, 2022 by chasfh

[RandyMarsh]

I know the Rays are a smart team, perhaps the smartest but that doesn't mean other teams including the Tigers are stupid.(despite what some fans lead you to believe)

I'm sure the Tigers analytic and scouting departments went over a number of scenarios including signing Conforto and they came to conclusion this was the best one and probably not just cause they want an immediate impact player likeClemens suggests. 

Also he acts like the Tigers don't have this same "basic" info that he used (put it in quotes cause the metrics he used are basic compared to what mlb teams have access to these days) at their fingertips and didn't take any of it into account. 

Idk the whole write up just bugged me cause it came across like the Tigers are stupid for thinking they can contend and just traded away some valuable player on a whim without doing their homework. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know the Rays are a smart team, perhaps the smartest but that doesn't mean other teams including the Tigers are stupid.(despite what some fans lead you to believe)

I'm sure the Tigers analytic and scouting departments went over a number of scenarios including signing Conforto and they came to conclusion this was the best one and probably not just cause they want an immediate impact player likeClemens suggests. 

Also he acts like the Tigers don't have this same "basic" info (put it in quotes cause the metrics he used are basic compared to what mlb teams have access to these days) at their fingertips and didn't take any of it into account. 

Idk the whole write up just bugged me cause it came across like the Tigers are stupid for thinking they can contend and just traded away some valuable player on a whim without doing their homework. 

Saber prospect writers do that all the time.  

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Fangraphs' Ben Clemens finally posted his take on last night's trade. Here's the elevator pitch:

I started out thinking this trade was a layup for the Tigers. I pretty quickly decided it was a layup for the Rays; I know our prospect rankings don’t reflect it, but I think Paredes is a more valuable player than Meadows straight up. But in the end, as I’m wont to do, I understand the Tigers’ motivation in making the trade, even if I think they gave up more than is optimal.

 

 

But the question is more valuable for who. Part of what makes trades work is that the player you receive is more valuable *to you* than the one you gave up. Unless the team you traded with is one potentially ahead of you in the standing, it doesn't much matter what the value of the player you traded is to his new team. Tigers need a bat like Meadows a lot more than they need a player with Paredes profile. Now if Meadows turns out to be damaged goods for some reason, then Al will have blown it, but it's way premature to make that kind of negative assumption just because it was Tampa that decided to move him.

Edited April 5, 2022 by gehringer_2