2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, oblong said:

I belong to a couple of baseball facebook pages that  is full of old timers who resent the modern game and this is the knid of thing that makes them go ape shit.

I love it for that alone.

 

I don't care much about sign stealing but this should cut down on a lot of wasted time with men on base.

[Stanley70]

Fangraphs did a few articles where they  did positional ranking for teams 1-30. They had the Tigers with the 18th ranked bullpen and 17th ranked rotation. The SP rankings looked a little low.  If they over perform there, which seems plausible, they should be a 500 team, or better.

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Stanley70 said:

Fangraphs did a few articles where they  did positional ranking for teams 1-30. They had the Tigers with the 18th ranked bullpen and 17th ranked rotation. The SP rankings looked a little low.  If they over perform there, which seems plausible, they should be a 500 team, or better.

Yeah, I think SP is where a lot of the disconnect lies. And it's sort of understandable given that Skubal and Mize both outpitched peripherals in '21. 

Personally, I do question whether one full season of pitching is enough to develop an expectation of what to expect going forward in their case. Once the track record is more established it makes more sense, but not this soon.

[Motor City Sonics]

If find it funny how people expect them to lose more games than last year.    They started a pathetic 9-24 last year and then went 68-61 the rest of the way.    Isn't it evident that once AJ & Co. got to know the team a little better that they had a major positive influence?   That team had Niko Goodrum as the starting SS.  They had Grayson Greiner & a washed up Wilson Ramos behind the plate.  They had Nomar Mazara as a starting OF.  They had JaCoby Jones as the starting CF.     

Yet, once they figured out those guys weren't going to cut it, they moved on - quickly (and somewhat ruthlessly) and wouldn't ya know, they weren't that bad after all and between the end of last year and beginning of this year the team has upgraded SS, by a Grand Canyon-like margin, upgraded the catching position, by a wide margin, have added a legit starting pitcher, gotten more experience for young starters who adjusted during the season and showed why they were high prospects, and have an aging veteran finally acting like a leader, setting his ego aside.  

I don't expect everything to be sunshine & roses for Torkleson and Greene, but wow, the upgrades even after the positive changes made last May would indicate that this team finishes with at least the same number of wins as last year.   Maybe people believe it was a fluke, but it didn't seem very flukey.   Their coaching staff made a big difference (in my opinion).   I don't expect them to make the playoffs this year, but I do expect them to get to .500.   No way they have a 9-24 start or 9-24 stretch this season and that 68-61 pace would have given them an 85 win season over 162 last year.  I expect about 81-85 wins this year.   I don't think this team really peaks for a couple more years when Tork and Greene have taken their lumps and learned the game.   

 

Let them use this as a chip on their shoulder.    

[Motor City Sonics]

27 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I have not seen much talk on this pretty interesting.

 

 

So if the pitcher shakes off the catcher, do they give them a little shock ?   Aversion Therapy

[chasfh]

14 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Just out of curiousity, who would you think would fall lower? 

I'd be tempted to say the Guardians, but the quality starting pitching makes it difficult to get them too far below .500

Royals probably have the best chance of falling lower. Guardians might if Jose Ramirez has another 2019 and the ball consistently bounces the wrong way for the pitchers.

All these projections are based on many thousands of simulations which regress every team to its own mean. Projections have the Dodgers with the best record at 94 wins and the Orioles the worst at 97. Maybe the new CBA leads fewer teams to tank and brings the range close to that, but I’d bet there will be at least a couple teams past the 100 mark in both directions.

[CMRivdogs]

32 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I have not seen much talk on this pretty interesting.

 

 

The Yankees broadcast crew touched on it briefly during yesterday's game. About how it may take some getting used to, especially for catchers in light of the pitch clock and all. Especially if the pitcher decides to shake you off.

Which led into a conversation about Roger Clemens signs to catchers about what he wanted to throw.

 

[diaspora04]

12 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

So if the pitcher shakes off the catcher, do they give them a little shock ?   Aversion Therapy

[Tiger337]

Here is what the fans think: 20th best record, but second best in the division.  

https://twitter.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/1511697736239763462?s=20&t=qiNMAF4m8NNv2bdEVGwiFA

[mtutiger]

Edited April 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[Motor City Sonics]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

He now makes more than the rest of his team combined? 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

He now makes more than the rest of his team combined? 

Very young team. 

[ben9753]

That’s a good deal for Cleveland. I’d much prefer him over Baez. 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I have not seen much talk on this pretty interesting.

 

 

I heard this yesterday on Dan Patrick, and I can't believe that was the first that I had heard of it.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, ben9753 said:

That’s a good deal for Cleveland. I’d much prefer him over Baez. 

I'd much prefer Ramirez over everyone except maybe a dozen players.

[buddha]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

All the projections have the Tigers doing poorly.  BP has them at 70 wins, FanGraphs 77.  It's hard to project young players with little track record.  I am predicting 83 wins, but that is being optimistic about guys like Torkelson, Mize and Skubal.  

i aasume the peojections have greene doing about the same as most young rookies do, badly.  same with tork but maybe to a lesser degree.

they dont like mize because he doesnt miss bats.  manning has no real track record.  they probably like skubal more.

to me, .500 would be a success.  all i want is to watch the kids play and hope they do well.

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

they dont like mize because he doesnt miss bats.  manning has no real track record.  they probably like skubal more.

None of the three have much of a track record, tbh.

[mtutiger]

Well, this isn't ideal lol

[RandyMarsh]

Just saw last night that the Padres were closing in on a trade for Ramirez and now I hear he has re-signed with Cleveland.

I thought the Padres were a strange fit considering they have Tatis and Machado but I guess when you're in the same division as the Dodgers you need to try to acquire all the top talent you can get and worry about where to play them afterwards. 

[mtutiger]

30 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Well, this isn't ideal lol

One way to look at it is that when Chafin/Funk return, two of these four will be gone. And the other two could potentially be gone when the roster size reduces down to 26. 

But potentially a rocky couple of weeks in the bullpen, but it will be interesting to see if any of them take advantage and push some of the others that are more established in the bullpen (ie. Big Joe, Foley)

[Sports_Freak]

12 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Poor Al trying his damnedest to change the narrative on Chris, signing off on a guy making 4 million this year and under control for 3 more isn't quite the same as his Dad signing off on a guy making 15 and due for a 160 million extension in Cabrera but I suppose you got to credit Avila for still trying to make his boss look better. 

Or signing off on the Fielder contract. That one floored me, it came out of LF.

[RandyMarsh]

As much as I loved the offseason my one complaint is that they didn't address the bp more. They got Chafin but I would've liked to get atleast one more reliable guy for the back end. 

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

As much as I loved the offseason my one complaint is that they didn't address the bp more. They got Chafin but I would've liked to get atleast one more reliable guy for the back end. 

Off season ain't over...............

[gehringer_2]

losing Cisnero sucks. Not all that reliable but when he was on he was very good. 60 must be pretty major. So often a pitcher on the 60 is just: "try to rest and rehab but you're probably looking at a season ending repair anyway...."

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Off season ain't over...............

I'd love for them to make another deal, but one imagines that the pitching market is pretty tight right now... as much as this sucks for the Tigers, almost every team is worried about pitching depth at the moment