2022 NFL Draft Thread

[Fox Wismic]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

No, it's just an economic calculation on risk/reward. As we professionalize college sports we need to expect players to make decisions based on their value to their professional careers. We are telling them that is what is important, why complain when they agree?

Nope. They made an agreement. Whatever the future result, they failed to honor their end of the agreement. Why should the university or taxpayers have to honor their end?

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

Nope. They made an agreement. Whatever the future result, they failed to honor their end of the agreement. Why should the university or taxpayers have to honor their end?

Not necessarily. Most bowl games are not played until the semester is over. Many of these players are parted from the their universities as of the end of fall term if they are not coming back for another season. Their scholarships are over.

Edited December 18, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Fox Wismic]

Jake Butt is a worst case scenario. Yet he received a half-million dollar injury settlement and later signed a $3M NFL deal.

He also has a FREE college degree which enables him to get lucrative employment in another field.

Not bad for a worst case scenario. Don't you wish you had it so bad?

And yes, he's the kind of player and person I would draft.

[Fox Wismic]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Not necessarily. Most bowl games are not played until the semester is over.

Really? All these players are earning their degree a semester early? Over intellectuals who normally graduate in May/June? Come on man.

[Fox Wismic]

16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

No, it's just an economic calculation on risk/reward. As we professionalize college sports we need to expect players to make decisions based on their value to their professional careers. 

I understand them leaving early if they can get a pro job. If I was a journalist and was given a job offer as a sophomore, before I got my degree, I'd take it too. But then my full-ride stops and rightfully so. Contracts are still binding.

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

Really? All these players are earning their degree a semester early? Over intellectuals who normally graduate in May/June? Come on man.

whether they have their degrees is not the question, it's whether they are registered for winter term. If you don't register you are no longer a student. I would guess many of them that are going into the draft are not - they are going into workout regimes for the combine.

Edited December 18, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

Let’s say that you grow up dreaming of being a professional football player.   This is everything that you prepare your life for from a small child all the way through high school.   You spend years of training and personal sacrifice dedicated to become a highly sought after high school player.   What are your options to achieve your goal of getting to the NFL?  

You only have one.   You must go to college and play.  There is no other choice.  The NFL can’t draft you from high school.   College is a forced stepping stone for many of these players.    The benefit of an education can be tremendous for the ones that choose to take advantage of it but it is not why they are in college.   It is a means to their end goal and they shouldn’t be vilified for their decision to  move onto the next level as soon as they are able. 

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, Fox Wismic said:

Jake Butt is a worst case scenario. Yet he received a half-million dollar injury settlement and later signed a $3M NFL deal.

He also has a FREE college degree which enables him to get lucrative employment in another field.

Not bad for a worst case scenario. Don't you wish you had it so bad?

And yes, he's the kind of player and person I would draft.

That worst case scenario needs to be taken into consideration by guys like Thibodeaux. He stands to sign a contract north of $30 million dollars in a few months. If he gets hurt between now and April though, that could reduce VERY quickly. Yes, Butt got out of that career with $3.5 million, including an injury settlement. Is that enough to retire on? If he had even been taken by the Broncos in the 2nd round instead of the 5th, he would have received a rookie contract north of $5 million. Is that enough?

I don’t think either $30 million or $1.5 million are worth a gamble on a single game that boils down to being an exhibition.

I think we also have drastically different definitions of free.

Edited December 18, 2021 by MichiganCardinal

[MichiganCardinal]

I should add too that guys like Hutchinson DO make that million dollar gamble on playoff games that matter, and I’m sure Pickett and Walker would too if the playoff were expanded. The allure of the magnitude of an NCAA championship in football outweighs a lot of logical decision making.

If you want to see good and exciting football games between good football teams, make the games meaningful. Don’t get mad at the players for making an astute financial decision regarding a meaningless game.

[Hongbit]

I think Pickett is passing up a huge opportunity to impress against MSU’s weak secondary.   I suspect he would have only improved his stock by playing but I also understand being safe and avoiding any loss injury 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

regarding a meaningless game.

I think this is key. In the current system the non playoff bowls are nothing more than big television advertising sign boards. The traditional conference rivalries are mostly gone, obviously the chance to win and end up at the  top of the polls is gone. Few sell out and many are played in front of embarrassingly empty stands. It's true that all sport is entertainment, but part of the entertainment value is normally that something is at stake. With that aspect missing too many of the bowls are pointless.

[Fox Wismic]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Let’s say that you grow up dreaming of being a professional football player. ...  What are your options to achieve your goal of getting to the NFL? ...  You must go to college and play. There is no other choice.

Let's say you SIGN an agreement to play for a college in exchange for a FREE college education that would cost everyone else over $100,000 AND to get a pathway to the NFL where only 1% of people who attempt it are successful - maybe you should have to honor your agreement. They have to honor theirs, right?

[Fox Wismic]

2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Yes, Butt got out of that career with $3.5 million, including an injury settlement. Is that enough to retire on? ... I think we also have drastically different definitions of free.

Who says he has to have enough to retire on by age 25? He has (or had the opportunity for) a college degree in his field of choosing to make a living with the rest of his life. That's the contract he agreed to.

If a person makes 50K a year, which is not a horrible salary, in 40 years he'll have made $2 million. At $100,000, which is a good salary, it would take 35 years to make your $3.5M.

Don't you wish you had it so bad?

As for "free", when you don't have to pay a college tuition, room and board, which would cost anyone else over $100,000, that's FREE, at least to you. It's not free to the university, it's contributors, or the taxpayers. I don't know what your "vastly different" definition of 'free' could be.

[Fox Wismic]

I do agree we have made many Bowls irrelevant and shallow by letting 6-6 teams, and now even 6-7 teams into Bowl games.

I would expand the playoffs to eight teams. Let the major Bowls rotate among them. That would cover seven Bowl games. Another eight Bowls would take in 16 more teams. I don't know if we need many more Bowls than that.

I would also make 7 wins the minimum or at least a better than .500 record.

You could go with a 10, 12, or 16 team playoff field, but I don't think team #12 or #16 has a legitimate claim to win the natty. That cheapens the regular season. But that would still be better than a 6-6 team playing a 6-7 team in the Invented-Out-of-Thin-Air Bowl.

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

Let's say you SIGN an agreement to play for a college in exchange for a FREE college education that would cost everyone else over $100,000 AND to get a pathway to the NFL where only 1% of people who attempt it are successful - maybe you should have to honor your agreement. They have to honor theirs, right?

I still don't understand why you feel a guy like Walker is not honoring a contract here. He is not playing any more games for MSU, they are not paying for the rest of his education. He has surrendered the balance of his scholarship (he could have had a full year of eligibility left). You can certainly argue whether it would nice to have a different system, but when a guy leaves early, he's not cheating his University in any contractual sense.

[Fox Wismic]

53 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I still don't understand why you feel a guy like Walker is not honoring a contract here. He is not playing any more games for MSU, they are not paying for the rest of his education. He has surrendered the balance of his scholarship (he could have had a full year of eligibility left). You can certainly argue whether it would nice to have a different system, but when a guy leaves early, he's not cheating his University in any contractual sense.

The Bowl game is part of this season. They have already honored their agreement with him. He might not be legally liable because of a technicality, but, AFAIC, he's still morally liable and is still letting down his teammates, university, coaches, fans, and those who paid for him to get where he is.

[sagnam]

They didn’t sign a contract for 4 years.  They are trading their labor for tuition.  The scholarship can be revoked at any time.  I mean in the SEC they take away scholarships for new recruits all the time.  There is no loyalty in this business.  Also it’s funny that a transfer is being lambasted for not playing a meaningless game.  What did you expect from a guy who left his last team?

 

And to be clear I support him transferring and opting out.  These guys are getting short changed on their labor for a billion dollar business.

Edited December 18, 2021 by sagnam

[MichiganCardinal]

2 hours ago, Fox Wismic said:

Who says he has to have enough to retire on by age 25? He has (or had the opportunity for) a college degree in his field of choosing to make a living with the rest of his life. That's the contract he agreed to.

If a person makes 50K a year, which is not a horrible salary, in 40 years he'll have made $2 million. At $100,000, which is a good salary, it would take 35 years to make your $3.5M.

Don't you wish you had it so bad?

As for "free", when you don't have to pay a college tuition, room and board, which would cost anyone else over $100,000, that's FREE, at least to you. It's not free to the university, it's contributors, or the taxpayers. I don't know what your "vastly different" definition of 'free' could be.

No one says he has to have enough to retire by 25. I'm saying that he should consider the long-term implications of playing in games that don't matter, and that if I were in his shoes, I would do the exact same thing. If my career could end on any given snap - if my life and health could be altered on any given snap - I want to make the most money possible, as quickly as possible.

He's compensated so well because he is good at what he does, and because he is putting his health and future on the line every time he straps on the pads. These NFL-caliber players are not going to college to be Communications or Kinesiology majors, or to play football for a couple years and then become a sales rep or a marketing guru... They are going to college because the NFL says they have to. 

The University of Michigan made about $126 million from the football team in fiscal year 2020. If my company was making $126M, and relied exclusively on a group of 85 unpaid college interns to generate that revenue, in exchange for paying for their education, I would not consider those interns to be receiving a free college degree. They clearly are working their asses off for it, whatever they're doing... To take that analogy further, if one of the best interns of the group said that he was not going to participate in a final piece of the unpaid internship experience because rich companies were considering hiring him in a few months and will pay him $3-5M or more, I would not fault him for a second.

[Fox Wismic]

Why not take off the last 3-4 games of the season. If you play, you might get hurt.

Might get hurt in practice, or an NFL exhibition game. Take those off too.

They have to play football to get a college education that doesn't cost them a dime? No, they're not unpaid if they are being compensated something with a $100,000 immediate value and hundreds of thousands more throughout the rest of their lives. And they don't have to pay taxes on their tuition/room/board earnings.

And now they can get money for their own exploits as well, and I believe they should.

If they don't take advantage of the offer of a free college degree because they just wanna play football, that's their decision. I won't shed any tears over that.

UM might bring in $126M, but Podunk Tech doesn't. How are they going to pay their amateur student athletes? Don't they work as hard?

[Stanley70]

"People make decisions that are in their best financial interests, news at eleven."

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Fox Wismic said:

Why not take off the last 3-4 games of the season. If you play, you might get hurt.

He' not picking and choosing when he plays as a member of the program. He's leaving it.

[Fox Wismic]

29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

He' not picking and choosing when he plays as a member of the program. He's leaving it.

Why didn't he leave mid-season? A lot more chance to get hurt in six games than one Bowl. He was already an established top pick.

[Fox Wismic]

I'm not saying it wasn't a good financial decision, at least in the immediate. I'm saying if I was drafting, I'd take a kid who wanted to play and send his team out with a Bowl victory. Not a snowflake mentality. I'd want team players on my team, not guys looking out just for themselve$. Win in the pros and you'll make more money.

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

Why didn't he leave mid-season? A lot more chance to get hurt in six games than one Bowl. He was already an established top pick.

I think there have been guys who bailed earlier in a season than the bowl games. Whatever motivated him to play UM, OSU and Penn St stopped motivating him I guess. But the point is, it's his decision to make. He's a full partner in his 'contract' with MSU and it can be over when he decides it's over. Now as a matter of fact, I believe that unlike  Cardinal's point about the SEC, the B1G does have stricter rules about revoking scholarships so a B1G athlete may even get a better deal, but why should we begrudge it? These kids put in time and work at a level 95% of people in normal lives never get close to. And after all, you don't see Tucker and MSU complaining, I read they are giving him a big send off tribute. MSU has probably seldom gotten a better return on an investment of <100K

[sagnam]

Where you work today is where should work until death because you agreed to work there.  Sorry.  Also whatever you are earning should remained fixed.  As a master of fact wouldn’t be so much easier if your employer provided your housing and meals rather than paying you money.  And once a year you can travel to a moderately warm place and work there.  Think about how freeing that would be.

 

Even if you did try to get a new job all the employers will pass you over because you are disloyal to your current company. 
 

Please forgive me if I can’t shed a tear for  these entitled assholes paying for a trip to that same moderately warm place just to watch the young men work a dangerous job for room and board while the entitled assholes scream and get wasted.

Edited December 19, 2021 by sagnam