2022 NFL Draft Thread

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, Hart said:

I mean...I guess anything could happen.  Everything would have to come together just perfect though for this to happen.  Not a smart way to build your future.  

Drafting a QB in a down draft for QBs just to draft one is even worse for your future.   

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, Hart said:

And that team disposed of him because they thought he was the main thing holding them back.  

For a QB whose biggest knock is the perception he can't beat good teams or win playoff games. Fact is Goff lead a team to the Super Bowl and played well doing it. Drafting a QB just to draft a QB is the worst thing the Lions can do. I mean, it wasn't that long ago when Goff was the next great thing. 

[Hart]

7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Drafting a QB in a down draft for QBs just to draft one is even worse for your future.   

Unfortunately the NFL is a league where it's nearly impossible to win big and have sustained success without a good to great qb.  I don't think the Lions have a choice.  And it's such a crapshoot that I don't think it's even that bad of a bet.  Take one every year until you find one.  Otherwise, enjoy NFL purgatory.  

[Hart]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

For a QB whose biggest knock is the perception he can't beat good teams or win playoff games. Fact is Goff lead a team to the Super Bowl and played well doing it. Drafting a QB just to draft a QB is the worst thing the Lions can do. I mean, it wasn't that long ago when Goff was the next great thing. 

4 weeks ago there was nobody in the state of Michigan who thought Goff was our quarterback of the future.  Then he has a few good games and now all the sudden everybody has got their hopes up.  Big mistake.  

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, Hart said:

4 weeks ago there was nobody in the state of Michigan who thought Goff was our quarterback of the future.  Then he has a few good games and now all the sudden everybody has got their hopes up.  Big mistake.  

I don't think anyone is saying he is the QB of the future. We aren't talking an undrafted free agent who had a couple good games. We're talking about a former number one pick who had a couple a pro bowl seasons and led a team to a Super Bowl. He's putting up better numbers at this point in his career than Stafford did. There is reason to be optimistic he can regain his old form. If not, he's in that Alex Smith mold where he's good enough to win to where you don't need to rush into another QB. 

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, Hart said:

Unfortunately the NFL is a league where it's nearly impossible to win big and have sustained success without a good to great qb.  I don't think the Lions have a choice.  And it's such a crapshoot that I don't think it's even that bad of a bet.  Take one every year until you find one.  Otherwise, enjoy NFL purgatory.  

I'm not denying that it isn't hard to win in the NFL without a franchise QB, it can be done(see the Eagles a few years ago) but it isn't easy. But what I'm arguing is wasting precious picks on QBs that very likely aren't going to be any better than Goff.  We aren't in position to win next year regardless so we don't have to make any rash decisions. Just see how Goff looks next year with more playmakers and being healthy the whole year and reassess then.  

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, Hart said:

Unfortunately the NFL is a league where it's nearly impossible to win big and have sustained success without a good to great qb.  I don't think the Lions have a choice.  And it's such a crapshoot that I don't think it's even that bad of a bet.  Take one every year until you find one.  Otherwise, enjoy NFL purgatory.  

Of course they have a choice. They can choose to understand that a Super Bowl contender isn't built from the ashes overnight. Or they can choose to waste a pick on the next Davis Mills, Jacob Eason, or Will Grier. Taking a QB in even the 2nd round, thinking you've found the next Prescott, Wilson, Brady, or Brees is far more likely to be a wasted pick (that could be spent on any of 10+ positions of need) than prove at all fruitful.

I think it's more likely that the Lions next draft a QB in 2024 than it is they draft one in 2022. I think the eventual franchise QB selected will have more to do with them as a prospect and the overall QB draft class that year than the Lions roster or situation at the time they're selected.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Hart said:

Unfortunately the NFL is a league where it's nearly impossible to win big and have sustained success without a good to great qb.  I don't think the Lions have a choice.  And it's such a crapshoot that I don't think it's even that bad of a bet.  Take one every year until you find one.  Otherwise, enjoy NFL purgatory.  

I prefer Kansas City's method of building a team and then drafting Patrick Mahomes rather than the...

Cleveland Browns method of drafting:

2005, 3-67 Charlie Frye

2007, 1-22 Brady Quinn

2010, 3-85 Colt McCoy

2012, 1-22 Brandon Weeden

2014, 1-22 Johnny Manziel

2017, 2-52 DeShone Kizer

2018, 1-1 Baker Mayfield

 

I have a better idea: Let's pick the CORRECT QB rather than taking a QB just for the fuck of it.

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, Hart said:

4 weeks ago there was nobody in the state of Michigan who thought Goff was our quarterback of the future.  Then he has a few good games and now all the sudden everybody has got their hopes up.  Big mistake.  

Nobody thinks he's the QB of the future.

Find a quote ANYWHERE that says he's the QB of the future.

The only quotes you will find, and I'm ready to guarantee this, is that he can "hold the fort" for the next year or two until we find our QB of the future, or similar.

"He's a stopgap", "He can hold the fort for another year or two", "We can wait until 2023 to draft a QB since this year's class sucks and Goff can get us by until then...".

Find me something different than the above. I don't think you can.

[Motor City Sonics]

I don't know how to do this if someone can help............

 

I would like to start a GoFundMe page to raise money to build a cross for Aaron Rodgers to be nailed to.   He's sacrificed so much for all of us in these uncertain and dangerous times.  

 

How do I get started?  

[MichiganCardinal]

56 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't know how to do this if someone can help............

 

I would like to start a GoFundMe page to raise money to build a cross for Aaron Rodgers to be nailed to.   He's sacrificed so much for all of us in these uncertain and dangerous times.  

 

How do I get started?  

I think the Cowboys, Buccaneers, and Rams are already taking donations, with plans to present it to him at his ceremonial choke job in the NFC Championship.

[Motor City Sonics]

8 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think the Cowboys, Buccaneers, and Rams are already taking donations, with plans to present it to him at his ceremonial choke job in the NFC Championship.

Well, if it hadn't been for all the persecution from the cancel culture, he'd have been more focused.  

[NYLion]

14 hours ago, Hart said:

I can't believe some fans are coming around on Goff after a few good games.  I may need to root for Goff to be awful the last two games so the Lions don't have any delusions that he is their quarterback of the future.  I get we are stuck with him another year and that is fine.  But they have to draft a quarterback in this draft sometime in the first 3 or 4 rounds.  Then you just cross your fingers and hope for the best.  It's not easy to find a quarterback but you have to at least try.  

You can't just draft a QB just to draft a QB. I'm not a Goff believer either but he's going to get a chance to prove himself next season, whether we like it or not, with presumably enough weapons around him to make a proper assessment so they can punt drafting a QB to next draft with one of the higher picks if they don't like one in the 1st or 2nd this draft.

Furthermore, QBs from Round 3 on down are pretty much wasted picks as opposed to other positions where you have a much higher likelihood to find a long term starter in the middle rounds. I'd be fine if they took a flier on one with the Rams pick or the 2nd, one that they REALLY liked. Beyond that? Forget it. Not worth it.

Edited December 30, 2021 by NYLion

[MichiganCardinal]

24 minutes ago, NYLion said:

You can't just draft a QB just to draft a QB. I'm not a Goff believer either but he's going to get a chance to prove himself next season, whether we like it or not, with presumably enough weapons around him to make a proper assessment so they can punt drafting a QB to next draft with one of the higher picks if they don't like one in the 1st or 2nd this draft.

Furthermore, QBs from Round 3 on down are pretty much wasted picks as opposed to other positions where you have a much higher likelihood to find a long term starter in the middle rounds. I'd be fine if they took a flier on one with the Rams pick or the 2nd, one that they REALLY liked. Beyond that? Forget it. Not worth it.

Realistically I think for what his expectations are he proved himself this year.

Goff wasn't shipped over from LA along with a multitude of high end draft picks because he's one of the best in the NFL. He isn't expected to carry a lesser team on his back, or have some magical run to the postseason while throwing to guys like Kalif Raymond and Tom Kennedy. He was and is expected to hold his own, not turn the ball over excessively, and do enough to allow for observation of player development at skill positions. Largely, I think he's checked those boxes if you evaluate him on the whole instead of cherry-picking his worst games.

Despite being frustratingly dink-and-dunk at times, he is clearly a leader, has more than 2x the number TDs to interceptions, and we have seen guys like St. Brown emerge as a real potential #2 Wide Receiver for this team. In the sense that this trend needs to continue as we likely add a future #1 receiving threat this offseason, I agree that he needs to continue to prove himself. But I would not discount what he has shown us this year.

I agree with pretty much everything else you have said though. To be clear, Goff is not the QB of the future (at Hart 😉), and the answer to that problem is not panic buying a bad QB while there are holes across the roster. I would really go even further and say if we don't see the solution with the Rams pick, don't bother. If they are a solution, a team that finishes better than the Rams (Indy and Green Bay come to mind) would likely select him anyway, and two upper-echelon 2nd Round QBs in the last 30 years (neither upper-echelon with the team that selected them) is enough data for me to say that it probably wouldn't work for Detroit either.

[Stanley70]

I still think if they like one of these QB's they need to maneuver in the first round to get him. If they don't so be it. 

I wouldn't burn a high pick on a QB that has too many question marks. But if they like Howell or Corral they need to trade up or down and make the pick.

[NYLion]

37 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Realistically I think for what his expectations are he proved himself this year.

Goff wasn't shipped over from LA along with a multitude of high end draft picks because he's one of the best in the NFL. He isn't expected to carry a lesser team on his back, or have some magical run to the postseason while throwing to guys like Kalif Raymond and Tom Kennedy. He was and is expected to hold his own, not turn the ball over excessively, and do enough to allow for observation of player development at skill positions. Largely, I think he's checked those boxes if you evaluate him on the whole instead of cherry-picking his worst games.

Despite being frustratingly dink-and-dunk at times, he is clearly a leader, has more than 2x the number TDs to interceptions, and we have seen guys like St. Brown emerge as a real potential #2 Wide Receiver for this team. In the sense that this trend needs to continue as we likely add a future #1 receiving threat this offseason, I agree that he needs to continue to prove himself. But I would not discount what he has shown us this year.

I agree with pretty much everything else you have said though. To be clear, Goff is not the QB of the future (at Hart 😉), and the answer to that problem is not panic buying a bad QB while there are holes across the roster. I would really go even further and say if we don't see the solution with the Rams pick, don't bother. If they are a solution, a team that finishes better than the Rams (Indy and Green Bay come to mind) would likely select him anyway, and two upper-echelon 2nd Round QBs in the last 30 years (neither upper-echelon with the team that selected them) is enough data for me to say that it probably wouldn't work for Detroit either.

I've never really liked Goff so there might be some bias on my part. He's skinny, turnover prone, has small hands that effect his grip and leads to those turnovers and he's pretty much toast when there's any semblance of pressure on him because of his limited mobility. He's not without good qualities as he has a good arm, is deadly accurate with the intermediate throws when he was time to throw and he seems to be a pretty good leader but he's the type of QB that you need to build an elite supporting cast around to win with.

Funny enough, the Lions are building the type of team that should cater to his strengths with the strong offensive line, solid running game and promising tight end but I've never been a big fan of glorified game managers. Never really liked the Alex Smiths and Jimmy Garapolos of the world even though those guys have won a lot of games. I know, it's a weird thing for me to say considering that Goff and Garapolo both led their teams to the Super Bowl and Smith won a lot of games but I see those as exceptions, not the norm for QBs of this ilk.

In any event, even though I'm not a big Goff fan, even I can admit that it's unfair to properly evaluate him this season. I'd assume that the Lions will add two top 3 level receivers at minimum in the draft and free agency so no more excuses for Goff next season, Ragnow will assumably be healthy and Decker for most of the season so he'll have help. This will be a player right smack dab in the middle of his prime who should have a good supporting cast of players to work with so it's do or die time for him next season I'd think. If he is in the "do" category, the Lions should make a sizeable jump in the standings and if it's "die" then the Lions should be in position to take a premier QB in the draft or at least have the ammo to trade up for one.

Edited December 30, 2021 by NYLion

[KL2]

17 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's not like Goff QB'd a team to a Super Bowl or anything. 

So did Rex Gossman.

 

I don't get why people thing that is some kind of feather in the cap. 

[Motown Bombers]

9 minutes ago, KL2 said:

So did Rex Gossman.

 

I don't get why people thing that is some kind of feather in the cap. 

Rex Grossman:

Jared Goff:

 

The two were not the same and I don't get why people think they were. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Motown Bombers

[KL2]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Rex Grossman:

Jared Goff:

 

The two were not the same and I don't get why people think they were. 

Cause you said nothing about stats

"It's not like Goff QB'd a team to a Super Bowl or anything."

You gave a total of one factor-- that Jared Goff had been to a superbowl. I used that one factor to point out that said one factor isn't that great. If you wanted to talk about stats in that year, maybe you should have mentioned them, instead of pointing out one and one thing only. That he went to a superbowl.  

[Motown Bombers]

7 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Cause you said nothing about stats

"It's not like Goff QB'd a team to a Super Bowl or anything."

You gave a total of one factor-- that Jared Goff had been to a superbowl. I used that one factor to point out that said one factor isn't that great. If you wanted to talk about stats in that year, maybe you should have mentioned them, instead of pointing out one and one thing only. That he went to a superbowl.  

Guess I didn't expect someone to make a terrible comparison. 

[Cruzer1]

I wouldn't call it a down year, this year is kind of deep at QB. It just doesn't have the upper end talent available.

[MichiganCardinal]

I thought Thibodeaux would eventually retake the #1 Edge spot from Hutchinson, though I had hoped it would happen after the combine, not in the playoff. 

[Jason_R]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:45 PM, Hart said:

Unfortunately the NFL is a league where it's nearly impossible to win big and have sustained success without a good to great qb.  I don't think the Lions have a choice.  And it's such a crapshoot that I don't think it's even that bad of a bet.  Take one every year until you find one.  Otherwise, enjoy NFL purgatory.  

Taking a QB every year until you find one is the definition of NFL purgatory. 

[sagnam]

First-round prospect Matt Corral carted off after leg injury in Sugar Bowl

 

Hope limped off the field before the cart, so hopefully it’s not serious.

[Motor City Sonics]

For all the people bitching about players opting out of bowl games -  a perfect example happened last night. 

Now, Corral is still going to be a first round pick and it's likely his draft stock probably didn't actually fall all that much, but this injury initially could have cost him millions.   The class of QBs in 2021 is not considered very strong so it probably benfits most of them to be drafted, soak it all in as a backup for a year before being thrown to the wolves, so in that regard this probably doesn't hurt him, but this is why they skip the bowl games.   

If the NCAA and their fans are going to make every decision about ratings and money money money then they can't turn around and bitch when a player makes a decision about money money money. 

It's a business move.  

Edited January 2, 2022 by Motor City Sonics