gehringer_2 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: It's funny about Kayvon Thibodeaux. We know from past history some of the questions teams ask players at the combine. Do you think that maybe Kayvon had a couple interactions like this and being a pretty smart guy he just thought "to hell with this, I'll have a pro day" and walked out on it? It's funny how the NFL cartel and NFL-Friendly media seems to be bashing this guy for walking out. He didn't play along so we're gonna make him pay. It's just odd the way he's being talked about. I think the Lions should take him at #2, if they don't trade the pick. Talent wins, the other crap is just noise. Valenti was running through one on one win/loss stats today that put Thibs within a spit of Hutchinson and everyone else (D-line wise) in second class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Kiper’s New Mock: 2) Sauce Gardner - CB 32) Lewis Cine - S 34) David Ojabo - IR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Hongbit said: Kiper’s New Mock: 2) Sauce Gardner - CB 32) Lewis Cine - S 34) David Ojabo - IR click bait and sports radio talk fodder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, buddha said: click bait and sports radio talk fodder 100% but this one was too awful to not share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 The minute I saw this mock I knew I was going to be listening to Karsch and Anderson today so I could here them and half of Metro Detroit call in and lambast this crap. Imagine having top 10 picks 4 years running and your team comes away with an average pass catching/pass blocking TE, a CB who has started 7 games over 2 years, a great LT, and another CB. I don't think there is any planet where they pass on a DE for Sauce Gardner or any CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Kiper is the ultimate weatherman. Paid obscene amounts to throw shit at the wall without consequence when he is wrong 99% of the time. At least the weathermen have scientific backing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP_Fan Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: The minute I saw this mock I knew I was going to be listening to Karsch and Anderson today so I could here them and half of Metro Detroit call in and lambast this crap. Imagine having top 10 picks 4 years running and your team comes away with an average pass catching/pass blocking TE, a CB who has started 7 games over 2 years, a great LT, and another CB. I don't think there is any planet where they pass on a DE for Sauce Gardner or any CB. Hockenson is average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, TP_Fan said: Hockenson is average? Of 32 starting TEs in 2021 Hockenson was 16th in total yards, 10th in receptions, 15th in TDs. So he is right near the middle/median for starting NFL TEs. Are you implying he is above or below average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) Hock is definitely above average but woefully short of expectation for a TE taken that high. Edited April 13, 2022 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Of 32 starting TEs in 2021 Hockenson was 16th in total yards, 10th in receptions, 15th in TDs. So he is right near the middle/median for starting NFL TEs. Are you implying he is above or below average? TBF, it depends on how you slice things. To be one of the 32 starting TE, you are already above the average pro TE since most teams carry at least two. WRT Hockenson, I'm not so much depressed that the #8 pick become a solid starter, that's OK. What is depressing is that that stands out as one of the best outcomes in Lion's recent history up to Sewell. Edited April 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 i think hockenson is a slightly above average nfl tight end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Hockenson also missed 5 games so it seems a little disingenuous to use total stats. The other player that was realistically a choice for the Lions at 8 was Ed Oliver who has pretty much been a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 The only TE I can find that put up better numbers than Hockenson in equal or fewer games is Darren Waller. If you average Hockenson's yards out over a full season, he would rank 6th among TE's. Kittle and Waller missed some time so they would be ahead of Hockenson as well over a full season. His catches over a full season would rank 3rd among TE's. His TD's would rank tied for 7th. When healthy he is a top 10 TE and could potentially get to top 5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Hockenson also missed 5 games so it seems a little disingenuous to use total stats. The other player that was realistically a choice for the Lions at 8 was Ed Oliver who has pretty much been a bust. Brian Burns, Montez Sweat, Devin Bush were all choices people wanted. Don't act like Oliver was the only other option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: It's funny about Kayvon Thibodeaux. We know from past history some of the questions teams ask players at the combine. Do you think that maybe Kayvon had a couple interactions like this and being a pretty smart guy he just thought "to hell with this, I'll have a pro day" and walked out on it? It's funny how the NFL cartel and NFL-Friendly media seems to be bashing this guy for walking out. He didn't play along so we're gonna make him pay. It's just odd the way he's being talked about. I think the Lions should take him at #2, if they don't trade the pick. Talent wins, the other crap is just noise. I dunno... I mean I get what your saying, that's he was put off by having to following the NFL song and dance and just left. But, if he doesn't like this "song and dance" what other things is he going to buck against? Obviously just because he won't do this doesn't mean he'll automatically not do other things, but does make me wonder: Will he skip out on "non-mandatory" mini-camps? Will he think he knows better than the coaches and so not follow their training recommendations? Talent, by itself, is meaningless. Without proper motivation and desire talent won't carry you at the pro-level. (The flip side of this is that motivation and desire, by themselves, are also meaningless.) You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't learn the system, work out, mesh with your team and coaches, you won't be great for the team. Titus Young is an example of this... granted, he didn't have the talent level of Kayvon, but he had good physical skills but mentally failed. (Just to reply to the question I'm sure I'll get asked: Are you seriously comparing Kayvon's mental makeup to Young? No, I'm saying that Young is an example of how talent without proper motivation failed a player.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Brian Burns, Montez Sweat, Devin Bush were all choices people wanted. Don't act like Oliver was the only other option. I don't recall hardly any Burns love but I could be wrong, I will give you the other two but in the case of Sweat it was mainly due to his combine which like Walker this year gave some folks trepidation about him. Oliver was the main guy people were complaining about passing on though Edited April 13, 2022 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Montez Sweat put up 5 sacks in 10 games last year and 9 the year before. Okwara even put up more sacks than Sweat in 2020. I'm not exactly kicking myself that the Lions passed on Sweat for Hockenson. Devin Bush has 4 total sacks. He had one of the worst LB grades last year. Burns had back to back 9 sack seasons. Good but it's not like the Lions passed on Donald for Ebron. Oliver was rated higher than all of them, drafted higher than all of them, and would have been the most likely pick if they didn't draft Hockenson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, RedRamage said: I dunno... I mean I get what your saying, that's he was put off by having to following the NFL song and dance and just left. But, if he doesn't like this "song and dance" what other things is he going to buck against? right. one needs to understand the context. If all he wants to do is spend his time getting better and playing the game and he sees the dog and pony media aspects as wasting his time, that wouldn't bother me. But sure, if it's just a general resistance to 'getting with the program' that can certainly be a problem - particularly with the typical NFL football coach! Be hard to know which unless you get to know to guy and what makes him tick. The Media types can only shoot from the hip on this kind of stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 I think Hock has the ceiling to be a borderline top five TE in the league. I take his stats from last year with a grain of salt, considering both his injury and the fact that he was the only offensive weapon on the team until we acquired Reynolds and St. Brown emerged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Hock was also labeled by some scouts as the best blocking TE they have ever scouted which is a big reason why he was drafted where he was. I don't know how much he did this past year but I know under the previous regime he stayed home and blocked alot more than your average TE so to just compare his receiving output isn't exactly fair to him when he is asked to do other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 As far as Sauce goes, I do like the idea of pairing him Oru and having a potential lethal combo of corners but ultimately I think we have a more pressing need for a pass rusher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: As far as Sauce goes, I do like the idea of pairing him Oru and having a potential lethal combo of corners but ultimately I think we have a more pressing need for a pass rusher. I like the idea of Okudah finally living up to half of his expectations and being the second of that lethal combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) That would be nice, Im not writing him off just yet despite the injury cause in recent years it seems that achilles injuries aren't the death sentence for athletes they once were but until he comes back and shows atleast some promise on the field Im not gonna count on him either. To me if he hits his draft day potential or even comes close that would be like found money. Edited April 13, 2022 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 i have a sinking feeling okudah will be just like jarrad davis: a guy with great tools who tries real hard, says the right things, and you root for him....but it never works out. i hope not, but coming back from being terrible and then having an achilles injury is rough. he may end up at safety. how weird would it be if will harris turns into the corner we thought okudah was and okudah becomes the safety we hopes harris would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 hokenson is not a great nfl blocker and he's not the mismatch we hoped he would be as a pass catcher. he is not a big play threat like waller, kelcie, gronk, or kittle. he's not a great blocker. he's not a 6'7 mismatch in the end zone like jimmy graham was. but he's not bad at any of those things. he's solid. he might be a "top 10 te" but what does that get you? a guy who is good at some stuff who doesnt move the needle but doesnt hurt you. ok. but that's not what you expected from the #8 pick in the draft. and unfortunately, that's where we picked him and that's how he'll be judged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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